4 ms·

Or maybe new ice age is coming.

exac 4y ago
> Or maybe new ice age is coming. The science does not support that. Your particular corner of the planet is not indicative of the world's changing climate: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/does-global-warming-mean-it%E2%80%99s-warming-everywhere https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/does-global...
- throw93232 4y ago
  I wrote MAYBE, science definitely says there is some propability of ice age. Qestion is what is propability of that maybe. But science is now religion I guess. I moved to warmer country to save on energy bills. Our politicians say hot shower is a luxury now!
  - themitigating 4y ago
    Science isn't a religion because it can change with new information
    - aww_dang 4y ago
      Scientism is a more precise term here: https://sciencereligiondialogue.org/resources/what-is-scientism/ https://sciencereligiondialogue.org/resources/what-is-scient... >It is one thing to celebrate science for its achievements and remarkable ability to explain a wide variety of phenomena in the natural world. But to claim there is nothing knowable outside the scope of science would be similar to a successful fisherman saying that whatever he can’t catch in his nets does not exist (15). Once you accept that science is the only source of human knowledge, you have adopted a philosophical position (scientism) that cannot be verified, or falsified, by science itself. It is, in a word, unscientific.
      - mattst88 4y ago
        What is an example of something that we know outside of science?
        aww_dang 4y ago
        Mathematics
        majewsky 4y ago
        Mathematics is not a field of natural science, but it is a science too. I've seen it classified as "structural science" before. It operates on the same tenets of the scientific method (which, in one sentence, can be described as "methodically testing falsifiable hypotheses"). The only difference to natural science is that the testing does not involve interrogating the physical world through experiments.
        aww_dang 4y ago
        There is also "political science" and "social science". There are also those who advance the premise that mathematics is empirical, but for the context of the discussion I'm not sure that either is relevant. Mathematical "testing" can be described as deduction. We can present math axioms, but can we present scientific axioms? Science as a religion or science as an all encompassing worldview is unscientific. This is better described as scientism. If you examine the premises of climate doom, you'll find unscientific presuppositions. There are also necessarily moral implications to the goals of regulating consumption and population size. It becomes even less scientific for cynics who question if the climate scientist's "experiments" and models are incentivized to necessitate certain conclusions. These are items which are best disputed in their respective arenas. "Believe the science" doesn't tell us anything about morality or the ideological progenitors of the climate movement. It narrows the issue while mischaracterizing science as a system of belief which can inform us on moral matters or the historical record of climate doom ideologues.
        4y ago
- upsidesinclude 4y ago
- hedora 4y ago
  There is definitely scientific evidence that continued CO2 emissions will eventually stop the atlantic currents and plunge Europe into an ice age. The thing you linked seems completely irrelevant to this discussion.
akvadrako 4y ago
Estimates of when the next glacial period would naturally start range from about 2ky to 12ky, so too far away to worry about now. The glacial transitions are somewhat predictable as they are triggered by favorable isolation conditions due to the eccentricity, obliquity and precession of the Earth. That's why we can have high confidence it won't happen in the next few hundred years. https://judithcurry.com/2016/10/24/nature-unbound-i-the-glacial-cycle/ https://judithcurry.com/2016/10/24/nature-unbound-i-the-glac... http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=7344 http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=7344

exac 4y ago

> Or maybe new ice age is coming. The science does not support that. Your particular corner of the planet is not indicative of the world's changing climate: https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/does-global-warming-mean-it%E2%80%99s-warming-everywhere https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/does-global...

throw93232 4y ago
I wrote MAYBE, science definitely says there is some propability of ice age. Qestion is what is propability of that maybe. But science is now religion I guess. I moved to warmer country to save on energy bills. Our politicians say hot shower is a luxury now!
- themitigating 4y ago
  Science isn't a religion because it can change with new information
  - aww_dang 4y ago
    Scientism is a more precise term here: https://sciencereligiondialogue.org/resources/what-is-scientism/ https://sciencereligiondialogue.org/resources/what-is-scient... >It is one thing to celebrate science for its achievements and remarkable ability to explain a wide variety of phenomena in the natural world. But to claim there is nothing knowable outside the scope of science would be similar to a successful fisherman saying that whatever he can’t catch in his nets does not exist (15). Once you accept that science is the only source of human knowledge, you have adopted a philosophical position (scientism) that cannot be verified, or falsified, by science itself. It is, in a word, unscientific.
    - mattst88 4y ago
      What is an example of something that we know outside of science?
      - aww_dang 4y ago
        Mathematics
        majewsky 4y ago
        Mathematics is not a field of natural science, but it is a science too. I've seen it classified as "structural science" before. It operates on the same tenets of the scientific method (which, in one sentence, can be described as "methodically testing falsifiable hypotheses"). The only difference to natural science is that the testing does not involve interrogating the physical world through experiments.
        aww_dang 4y ago
        There is also "political science" and "social science". There are also those who advance the premise that mathematics is empirical, but for the context of the discussion I'm not sure that either is relevant. Mathematical "testing" can be described as deduction. We can present math axioms, but can we present scientific axioms? Science as a religion or science as an all encompassing worldview is unscientific. This is better described as scientism. If you examine the premises of climate doom, you'll find unscientific presuppositions. There are also necessarily moral implications to the goals of regulating consumption and population size. It becomes even less scientific for cynics who question if the climate scientist's "experiments" and models are incentivized to necessitate certain conclusions. These are items which are best disputed in their respective arenas. "Believe the science" doesn't tell us anything about morality or the ideological progenitors of the climate movement. It narrows the issue while mischaracterizing science as a system of belief which can inform us on moral matters or the historical record of climate doom ideologues.
        4y ago
upsidesinclude 4y ago
hedora 4y ago
There is definitely scientific evidence that continued CO2 emissions will eventually stop the atlantic currents and plunge Europe into an ice age. The thing you linked seems completely irrelevant to this discussion.

akvadrako 4y ago

Estimates of when the next glacial period would naturally start range from about 2ky to 12ky, so too far away to worry about now. The glacial transitions are somewhat predictable as they are triggered by favorable isolation conditions due to the eccentricity, obliquity and precession of the Earth. That's why we can have high confidence it won't happen in the next few hundred years. https://judithcurry.com/2016/10/24/nature-unbound-i-the-glacial-cycle/ https://judithcurry.com/2016/10/24/nature-unbound-i-the-glac... http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=7344 http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=7344