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I worked at an office where the beer tap was locked most of the time and could only be unlocked by the residential "Workplace Experience PM" for officially sanc

I worked at an office where the beer tap was locked most of the time and could only be unlocked by the residential "Workplace Experience PM" for officially sanctioned events. A similar locking cabinet could be used for fast-acting cannabis gummies.

robbedpeter 5y ago
Or maybe just let people find whatever mental state they prefer, and if their work output is sufficient to justify their salary, fuck right off with telling other adults that they must remain sober at all times. Set rational expectations. The on call people need to remain sober, as well as anyone operating or maintaining critical infrastructure or machinery. If you're dealing with the public, you should probably be mostly sober. If you're doing data entry requiring precision, you probably shouldn't be doing 5 grams of mushrooms, but a few beers or a little weed might get you in the zone and make the work enjoyable. If someone produces excellent output while a little drunk or high, or maybe they like to trip for inspiration, or they take a second Adderall to plow through a project, that should be a decision up to the worker and their doctor. Set behavioral expectations for respectful workplaces, but let's not pretend that a sober, unaltered state of mind is the one and only appropriate condition for all work situations. Fetishizing sobriety and stigmatizing altered states are anti-human ideas. I've worked at high level isp positions and many of the top engineers - CCIE level - were working while high as fuck. They did excellent work, but could get a case of the giggles at silly things. Management knew and would ignore it unless someone behaved inappropriately. Altering your state of mind is not a sin - behaving badly is not an inevitable consequence of drug use. Drug use is not always behaving badly.
- rayiner 5y ago
  > Fetishizing sobriety and stigmatizing altered states are anti-human ideas. The exact opposite is true. There’s nothing “human” about using substances to “alter” your natural state.
  - tptacek 5y ago
    You mean besides the fact that we've been doing it since the dawn of the species?
    - rayiner 5y ago
      And? What makes it “human.” I use a ton of coffee to alter my mental state—I’m not going to glamorize it as being more “human.”
      - LocalH 5y ago
        Some think that use of psychoactive substances were key to humans becoming "humans" and developing the capability for higher reasoning. What makes it not "human" to alter your mental state?
      - tptacek 5y ago
        It's hard for me to imagine a definition for the adjectival "human" that doesn't boil down to "stuff we've been doing consistently since the dawn of the species". You're wrong: intoxication is essentially, intrinsically human; it's one of the most human things you could come up with. That doesn't make it good, or mean we can't prohibit it; I can think of other human things that we can't reasonably tolerate. But your specific argument was weird, and faulty.
      - lupire 5y ago
        Tool use one of the key distinguishing characteristics of humans.
    - pen2l 5y ago
      By and large substances that alter human consciousness have been frowned upon since the dawn of civilization. Religions tend to tell you to avoid them (Islam expressly forbids all mind-altering substances, Christianity and Judaism say ok to alcohol but only within limits of sobriety). In current times it seems especially prudent to resist openness to marijuana lest it serve as a gateway to harder drugs. Because, we are sort of going through an opioid crisis of epic proportions: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm When I'm driving home from work, I have to pass a certain intersection which is filled with folks on hard drugs, and sometimes they're very brave in that they like to walk into oncoming traffic while barely alert, you have to basically be _super_ careful and ready to brake hard in an instant to make sure you don't kill them, and that really irritates me. And I can't help but think that this is the result of the recent openness to drugs, including by our libertarian-inclined peers in the tech sector. Somehow or other the comedians and edgelord warriors won this one, and everyone thinks marijuana is cool, even when the science is out on its harm: long-term usage causes memory and general cognition impairment, usage by adolescents and pre-teens results in even more serious and lasting damage. It kind of makes me want to pull all of my hair out when you have streets like this in every other large city it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1Kf-1qd6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1Kf-1qd6Y What a shameful and irresponsible thing to do, to be defending recreational drugs in any manner at this point.
- luckman212 5y ago
  Yeah sorry, no thanks. Software is buggy enough already. How about the guy working on that new autopilot navigation system for Boeing? Smoke all you want on your own time, but I prefer the engineers keep their faculties intact.
- quantified 5y ago
  This is the crux. I wonder how much this is part of the WFH preference. Some people have tasks and a mental constitution for which cannabis is perfectly fine. Other people have the same tasks, but won’t perform up to par when buzzed. They may not be able to tell, the inner and external experiences are different. And there is work for which you really shouldn’t even take the chance. Need everybody to be responsible enough to know where they stand. If you’re underpaid/underappreciated, that’s one thing. If you’re well-paid or appreciated you really should be bringing your best. Given the effects of ADHD and anxiety meds on children, “sobriety” hasn’t really been fully fetishized in a while. If you don’t think so, take one of your kid’s meds and see what you think.

robbedpeter 5y ago

Or maybe just let people find whatever mental state they prefer, and if their work output is sufficient to justify their salary, fuck right off with telling other adults that they must remain sober at all times. Set rational expectations. The on call people need to remain sober, as well as anyone operating or maintaining critical infrastructure or machinery. If you're dealing with the public, you should probably be mostly sober. If you're doing data entry requiring precision, you probably shouldn't be doing 5 grams of mushrooms, but a few beers or a little weed might get you in the zone and make the work enjoyable. If someone produces excellent output while a little drunk or high, or maybe they like to trip for inspiration, or they take a second Adderall to plow through a project, that should be a decision up to the worker and their doctor. Set behavioral expectations for respectful workplaces, but let's not pretend that a sober, unaltered state of mind is the one and only appropriate condition for all work situations. Fetishizing sobriety and stigmatizing altered states are anti-human ideas. I've worked at high level isp positions and many of the top engineers - CCIE level - were working while high as fuck. They did excellent work, but could get a case of the giggles at silly things. Management knew and would ignore it unless someone behaved inappropriately. Altering your state of mind is not a sin - behaving badly is not an inevitable consequence of drug use. Drug use is not always behaving badly.

rayiner 5y ago
> Fetishizing sobriety and stigmatizing altered states are anti-human ideas. The exact opposite is true. There’s nothing “human” about using substances to “alter” your natural state.
- tptacek 5y ago
  You mean besides the fact that we've been doing it since the dawn of the species?
  - rayiner 5y ago
    And? What makes it “human.” I use a ton of coffee to alter my mental state—I’m not going to glamorize it as being more “human.”
    - LocalH 5y ago
      Some think that use of psychoactive substances were key to humans becoming "humans" and developing the capability for higher reasoning. What makes it not "human" to alter your mental state?
    - tptacek 5y ago
      It's hard for me to imagine a definition for the adjectival "human" that doesn't boil down to "stuff we've been doing consistently since the dawn of the species". You're wrong: intoxication is essentially, intrinsically human; it's one of the most human things you could come up with. That doesn't make it good, or mean we can't prohibit it; I can think of other human things that we can't reasonably tolerate. But your specific argument was weird, and faulty.
    - lupire 5y ago
      Tool use one of the key distinguishing characteristics of humans.
  - pen2l 5y ago
    By and large substances that alter human consciousness have been frowned upon since the dawn of civilization. Religions tend to tell you to avoid them (Islam expressly forbids all mind-altering substances, Christianity and Judaism say ok to alcohol but only within limits of sobriety). In current times it seems especially prudent to resist openness to marijuana lest it serve as a gateway to harder drugs. Because, we are sort of going through an opioid crisis of epic proportions: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm When I'm driving home from work, I have to pass a certain intersection which is filled with folks on hard drugs, and sometimes they're very brave in that they like to walk into oncoming traffic while barely alert, you have to basically be _super_ careful and ready to brake hard in an instant to make sure you don't kill them, and that really irritates me. And I can't help but think that this is the result of the recent openness to drugs, including by our libertarian-inclined peers in the tech sector. Somehow or other the comedians and edgelord warriors won this one, and everyone thinks marijuana is cool, even when the science is out on its harm: long-term usage causes memory and general cognition impairment, usage by adolescents and pre-teens results in even more serious and lasting damage. It kind of makes me want to pull all of my hair out when you have streets like this in every other large city it seems: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1Kf-1qd6Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi1Kf-1qd6Y What a shameful and irresponsible thing to do, to be defending recreational drugs in any manner at this point.
luckman212 5y ago
Yeah sorry, no thanks. Software is buggy enough already. How about the guy working on that new autopilot navigation system for Boeing? Smoke all you want on your own time, but I prefer the engineers keep their faculties intact.
quantified 5y ago
This is the crux. I wonder how much this is part of the WFH preference. Some people have tasks and a mental constitution for which cannabis is perfectly fine. Other people have the same tasks, but won’t perform up to par when buzzed. They may not be able to tell, the inner and external experiences are different. And there is work for which you really shouldn’t even take the chance. Need everybody to be responsible enough to know where they stand. If you’re underpaid/underappreciated, that’s one thing. If you’re well-paid or appreciated you really should be bringing your best. Given the effects of ADHD and anxiety meds on children, “sobriety” hasn’t really been fully fetishized in a while. If you don’t think so, take one of your kid’s meds and see what you think.