4 ms·

> The goal of the company is to equally value the customer, environment, and profits. In other words, the model isn't to maximize profit like an investor backed

by kqr 5y ago

> The goal of the company is to equally value the customer, environment, and profits. In other words, the model isn't to maximize profit like an investor backed startup, but rather to create a lean, useful piece of software that grows with its users and can sustain itself from every angle from day one. If the owners are separate from the users, it's not set up for sustainability. If someone other than the users bear the risk of loss and upside of profits, it creates weird incentives whether you want it to or not. Have you considered running it as a co-op? Every user has an equal stake in costs and profits and an equal voice in decisions. This model literally grows with its users, and it's the only one that does so. I like this but it sounds like you've chosen the wrong model for running it. If I was going to use something like this (which I would like to, I think, if nothing else to share updates with families/close friends) I would want to own it equally with the other users.

CitrusFruits 5y ago
That's an interesting idea! No I haven't considered that. B-Corp is what I was imagining, but a co-op is a great idea as well.
- Biologist123 5y ago
  Lovely concept. Have a look at the work Commonwealth have done on digital platform cooperatives. https://www.common-wealth.co.uk/reports/digital-co-ops-and-the-democratic-economy https://www.common-wealth.co.uk/reports/digital-co-ops-and-t...
- fabianhjr 5y ago
  There are several advocacy groups that could help out: https://ioo.coop https://ioo.coop (Internet of Ownership Coop) (Edit: currently down, a snapshot is available at https://web.archive.org/web/20211207224925/http://ioo.coop/ https://web.archive.org/web/20211207224925/http://ioo.coop/ ) https://platform.coop https://platform.coop (Platform Cooperativism site) A good short read on the topic could be Nick Srnicek's Platform Capitalism; it covers concisely a lot of the economics involved.
- civilized 5y ago
  RStudio, in my opinion one of the greatest companies in the world today, is a public benefit corp.
- throwaway892238 5y ago
  Couchsurfing converted to a B-corp, but that didn't work out well (for the members). I think co-op would put the emphasis back on the member experience and would have prevented Couchsurfing from killing its community and ruining its brand. CS also claimed that the B-corp meant it couldn't accept donations or do open source development, though I have no idea if that was true. If you go for co-op, you could go one further and try for a non-profit co-op: https://smallbusiness.chron.com/nonprofit-coop-66008.html https://smallbusiness.chron.com/nonprofit-coop-66008.html
mr90210 5y ago
What an idea!
nsomaru 5y ago
I’m not sure how this works in the US but I would be worried about attracting liability for what happens on the platform. How does that work?
- gglon 5y ago
  That is exactly why I think one post per week and lack of global space is a great solution for a startup; it massively simplifies spam and other hostile content early detection and removal.
simulate-me 5y ago
Has any technical product ever organized as a co op and been successful? Such a weird criticism…
- longtimelistnr 5y ago
  It’s not a weird criticism. May not be unrealistic to be a co-op, fine that’s difficult. But don’t lie and say there’s no profit incentive to be had when there clearly is if owners of the platform are separate from individual users
- itslennysfault 5y ago
  The jury is obviously still out, but I think The Drivers Cooperative is pretty successful, and I'm optimistic that it will continue to be. https://drivers.coop/ https://drivers.coop/
- planb 5y ago
  Has any social network ever focused on users well-being and been successful? I think it’s not criticism but an interesting idea.
  - CitrusFruits 5y ago
    I too, am curious. It seems like Mastodon and other federated networks definitely have user well being and autonomy as a goal. However, for whatever reason, most of the more popular federated networks seem to aspire to be "X, but federated" instead of having drastically different user experiences.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  Quite a few! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_cooperative https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_cooperative I think it's a valid concern to ask about incentive alignment - if you're wanting to do a tech-for-good project, you probably want to make sure that profiteering doesn't become the primary driver at a later date by making a Ulysses pact [1]. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact

by kqr 5y ago

CitrusFruits 5y ago

That's an interesting idea! No I haven't considered that. B-Corp is what I was imagining, but a co-op is a great idea as well.

Biologist123 5y ago
Lovely concept. Have a look at the work Commonwealth have done on digital platform cooperatives. https://www.common-wealth.co.uk/reports/digital-co-ops-and-the-democratic-economy https://www.common-wealth.co.uk/reports/digital-co-ops-and-t...
fabianhjr 5y ago
There are several advocacy groups that could help out: https://ioo.coop https://ioo.coop (Internet of Ownership Coop) (Edit: currently down, a snapshot is available at https://web.archive.org/web/20211207224925/http://ioo.coop/ https://web.archive.org/web/20211207224925/http://ioo.coop/ ) https://platform.coop https://platform.coop (Platform Cooperativism site) A good short read on the topic could be Nick Srnicek's Platform Capitalism; it covers concisely a lot of the economics involved.
civilized 5y ago
RStudio, in my opinion one of the greatest companies in the world today, is a public benefit corp.
throwaway892238 5y ago
Couchsurfing converted to a B-corp, but that didn't work out well (for the members). I think co-op would put the emphasis back on the member experience and would have prevented Couchsurfing from killing its community and ruining its brand. CS also claimed that the B-corp meant it couldn't accept donations or do open source development, though I have no idea if that was true. If you go for co-op, you could go one further and try for a non-profit co-op: https://smallbusiness.chron.com/nonprofit-coop-66008.html https://smallbusiness.chron.com/nonprofit-coop-66008.html

mr90210 5y ago

What an idea!

nsomaru 5y ago

I’m not sure how this works in the US but I would be worried about attracting liability for what happens on the platform. How does that work?

gglon 5y ago
That is exactly why I think one post per week and lack of global space is a great solution for a startup; it massively simplifies spam and other hostile content early detection and removal.

simulate-me 5y ago

Has any technical product ever organized as a co op and been successful? Such a weird criticism…

longtimelistnr 5y ago
It’s not a weird criticism. May not be unrealistic to be a co-op, fine that’s difficult. But don’t lie and say there’s no profit incentive to be had when there clearly is if owners of the platform are separate from individual users
itslennysfault 5y ago
The jury is obviously still out, but I think The Drivers Cooperative is pretty successful, and I'm optimistic that it will continue to be. https://drivers.coop/ https://drivers.coop/
planb 5y ago
Has any social network ever focused on users well-being and been successful? I think it’s not criticism but an interesting idea.
- CitrusFruits 5y ago
  I too, am curious. It seems like Mastodon and other federated networks definitely have user well being and autonomy as a goal. However, for whatever reason, most of the more popular federated networks seem to aspire to be "X, but federated" instead of having drastically different user experiences.
beaconstudios 5y ago
Quite a few! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_cooperative https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platform_cooperative I think it's a valid concern to ask about incentive alignment - if you're wanting to do a tech-for-good project, you probably want to make sure that profiteering doesn't become the primary driver at a later date by making a Ulysses pact [1]. 1: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_pact