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Or the NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale, and an NSA analyst reveals it then gets asylum in Russia and US citizens shrug and move on fo

Or the NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale, and an NSA analyst reveals it then gets asylum in Russia and US citizens shrug and move on forgetting it ever happened.

riku_iki 5y ago
> NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale has illegality been proven? From what I could find they performed surveillance under FISA warrants. There are obviously greater conspiracy theories, but are they supported by evidence?
- drdeca 5y ago
  Aiui, A number of their actions were later ruled unconstitutional (with no punishment)?
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    Maybe you have a chance to provide any specific reference to see if it is related to Snowden disclosure?
- smegger001 5y ago
  a court that literally rubber stamped everything brought to it without even looking at it yeah...
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    It doesn't mean it is illegal.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      It so blatantly violates what a reasonable person would suppose is just to the extent that such actions being legal would in effect mean we had in effect jettisoned every bit of the soul and spirit of the law in favor of spurious interpretations that could be thinly used to justify what is done if and only if one is a sociopath with no conception of the purpose or spirit of the law.
- Turtle_Power 5y ago
  From some of the other posts here, it would appear so. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    Which of the links are relevant to Snowden disclosure of the Prizm?
- warent 5y ago
  perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. that being said, in 2020: The panel held that the government may have violated the Fourth Amendment when it collected the telephony metadata of millions of Americans ... pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff5e80000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff...
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    My understanding is that this is unrelated issue to what Snowden disclosed. > perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. Perhaps, it is slow because it is complicated topic, which is not clearly described in constitution: where to draw the line for personal privacy.
    - warent 5y ago
      Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? What government programs unrelated to Snowden's disclosure collect millions of Americans telephony metadata? Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll.
      - riku_iki 5y ago
        > Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll. I sometimes make mistakes, I was not aware that Snowden leaked this program too. Anyway, illegality of this program is not proven yet, all collection happened under FISA warrants as I initially said, I think this was the topic? > Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? I obviously didn't go through all 60 pages of court document, I believe it was your burden to provide exact citation to support of your point for the sake of discussion.
- zauguin 5y ago
  Given the global scale I can assure you that the illegality has been proven in many affected countries. The main question is if it's also illegal in the US.

Or the NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale, and an NSA analyst reveals it then gets asylum in Russia and US citizens shrug and move on forgetting it ever happened.

riku_iki 5y ago

> NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale has illegality been proven? From what I could find they performed surveillance under FISA warrants. There are obviously greater conspiracy theories, but are they supported by evidence?

drdeca 5y ago
Aiui, A number of their actions were later ruled unconstitutional (with no punishment)?
- riku_iki 5y ago
  Maybe you have a chance to provide any specific reference to see if it is related to Snowden disclosure?
smegger001 5y ago
a court that literally rubber stamped everything brought to it without even looking at it yeah...
- riku_iki 5y ago
  It doesn't mean it is illegal.
  - michaelmrose 5y ago
    It so blatantly violates what a reasonable person would suppose is just to the extent that such actions being legal would in effect mean we had in effect jettisoned every bit of the soul and spirit of the law in favor of spurious interpretations that could be thinly used to justify what is done if and only if one is a sociopath with no conception of the purpose or spirit of the law.
Turtle_Power 5y ago
From some of the other posts here, it would appear so. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa
- riku_iki 5y ago
  Which of the links are relevant to Snowden disclosure of the Prizm?
warent 5y ago
perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. that being said, in 2020: The panel held that the government may have violated the Fourth Amendment when it collected the telephony metadata of millions of Americans ... pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff5e80000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff...
- riku_iki 5y ago
  My understanding is that this is unrelated issue to what Snowden disclosed. > perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. Perhaps, it is slow because it is complicated topic, which is not clearly described in constitution: where to draw the line for personal privacy.
  - warent 5y ago
    Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? What government programs unrelated to Snowden's disclosure collect millions of Americans telephony metadata? Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll.
    - riku_iki 5y ago
      > Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll. I sometimes make mistakes, I was not aware that Snowden leaked this program too. Anyway, illegality of this program is not proven yet, all collection happened under FISA warrants as I initially said, I think this was the topic? > Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? I obviously didn't go through all 60 pages of court document, I believe it was your burden to provide exact citation to support of your point for the sake of discussion.
zauguin 5y ago
Given the global scale I can assure you that the illegality has been proven in many affected countries. The main question is if it's also illegal in the US.