4 ms·

It's all fun and games until the NSA actually creates bird drones for spying on citizens for the sake of national security and any one who identifies them are l

It's all fun and games until the NSA actually creates bird drones for spying on citizens for the sake of national security and any one who identifies them are labeled insane and have their rights stripped and shipped to a oil refinery in north dakota.

fullshark 5y ago
Or the NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale, and an NSA analyst reveals it then gets asylum in Russia and US citizens shrug and move on forgetting it ever happened.
- riku_iki 5y ago
  > NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale has illegality been proven? From what I could find they performed surveillance under FISA warrants. There are obviously greater conspiracy theories, but are they supported by evidence?
  - drdeca 5y ago
    Aiui, A number of their actions were later ruled unconstitutional (with no punishment)?
    - riku_iki 5y ago
      Maybe you have a chance to provide any specific reference to see if it is related to Snowden disclosure?
  - smegger001 5y ago
    a court that literally rubber stamped everything brought to it without even looking at it yeah...
    - riku_iki 5y ago
      It doesn't mean it is illegal.
      - michaelmrose 5y ago
        It so blatantly violates what a reasonable person would suppose is just to the extent that such actions being legal would in effect mean we had in effect jettisoned every bit of the soul and spirit of the law in favor of spurious interpretations that could be thinly used to justify what is done if and only if one is a sociopath with no conception of the purpose or spirit of the law.
  - Turtle_Power 5y ago
    From some of the other posts here, it would appear so. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa
    - riku_iki 5y ago
      Which of the links are relevant to Snowden disclosure of the Prizm?
  - warent 5y ago
    perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. that being said, in 2020: The panel held that the government may have violated the Fourth Amendment when it collected the telephony metadata of millions of Americans ... pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff5e80000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff...
    - riku_iki 5y ago
      My understanding is that this is unrelated issue to what Snowden disclosed. > perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. Perhaps, it is slow because it is complicated topic, which is not clearly described in constitution: where to draw the line for personal privacy.
      - warent 5y ago
        Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? What government programs unrelated to Snowden's disclosure collect millions of Americans telephony metadata? Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll.
        riku_iki 5y ago
        > Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll. I sometimes make mistakes, I was not aware that Snowden leaked this program too. Anyway, illegality of this program is not proven yet, all collection happened under FISA warrants as I initially said, I think this was the topic? > Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? I obviously didn't go through all 60 pages of court document, I believe it was your burden to provide exact citation to support of your point for the sake of discussion.
  - zauguin 5y ago
    Given the global scale I can assure you that the illegality has been proven in many affected countries. The main question is if it's also illegal in the US.
jollybean 5y ago
Oil refinery workers in remote areas get paid a fortune and live in low cost centres, they work for a few years and retire early. That does kind of sound like a punishment of the future: you have to do 'manual labour' - which people are so unwilling to do, that it also happens to be the highest paid. White collar workers make TikToks for lattes, Blue Collar workers are the high income earners. It's already kind of happening.
- paxprose 5y ago
  Oil refinery workers are generally college educated petrochemical engineers. Their "peers" in the corporate office often make much more than they do. I don't know of what refinery workers are "retiring early" but my grandfather's 30 year CITGO pin as well as cancer that runs through my family from proximity to those "low cost centers" leaves much to be desired of this rose tinted narrative you're describing.
  - jollybean 5y ago
    "Oil refinery workers are generally college educated petrochemical engineers. " Alberta Oil workers are 1% 'petrochemical' Engineers. They are 'everything else'. Cooks, drivers, daycare workers, maintenance, carpenters, electricians, managers, team leads etc. etc. and earn about $120-200K, and while at the camp everything is provided for them in quantity (food is amazing if you like 'Denny's' kind of food).
  - idiotsecant 5y ago
    An an engineer who worked in refineries in the US its pretty obvious to me that you haven't spent any time at all in a refinery or you'd know that the vast majority of people in a refinery are not engineers. They are pipe fitters, operators, electricians, welders, machinists, general laborers, managers, admin people, etc. Engineers are a small minority.
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  I have read that most newly minted millionaires own their own construction/contractor business. I can say, anecdotally, when I lived in Silicon Valley the blue-collar guy down the street had his own house painting business and did alright as near as I could tell. I know he got in a few hours of golf during most days. Also on the golf course, realtors in the area.
exegete 5y ago
DARPA has funded a hummingbird drone prototype as of 10 years ago https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxtIPIDBnY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxtIPIDBnY
- tedmiston 5y ago
  I came here to say this too ^. I remember hearing research about these in 2012. I went to school right next to the Air Force Research Laboratory which controls a $2B+ budget, and there were research projects around biomimicry, etc. As your link shows, miniature drones that look like birds and mimic actual bird movements definitely exist. IIRC, there has been similar research devoted to small burrowing ground animals as well. How prevalent these are in the wild, and where and what they are used for is a whole other topic, but their existence is crystal clear. I wonder how many people outside of engineering fields actually know about this vs think it is some sort of science fiction.
hulahoof 5y ago
I can’t find the exact video but I have seen similar to these in videos from military expo’s https://www.thedronebird.com/aves/ https://www.thedronebird.com/aves/

fullshark 5y ago

Or the NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale, and an NSA analyst reveals it then gets asylum in Russia and US citizens shrug and move on forgetting it ever happened.

riku_iki 5y ago
> NSA commits illegal massive surveillance at a global scale has illegality been proven? From what I could find they performed surveillance under FISA warrants. There are obviously greater conspiracy theories, but are they supported by evidence?
- drdeca 5y ago
  Aiui, A number of their actions were later ruled unconstitutional (with no punishment)?
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    Maybe you have a chance to provide any specific reference to see if it is related to Snowden disclosure?
- smegger001 5y ago
  a court that literally rubber stamped everything brought to it without even looking at it yeah...
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    It doesn't mean it is illegal.
    - michaelmrose 5y ago
      It so blatantly violates what a reasonable person would suppose is just to the extent that such actions being legal would in effect mean we had in effect jettisoned every bit of the soul and spirit of the law in favor of spurious interpretations that could be thinly used to justify what is done if and only if one is a sociopath with no conception of the purpose or spirit of the law.
- Turtle_Power 5y ago
  From some of the other posts here, it would appear so. https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa https://hn.algolia.com/?q=illegal+surveillance+nsa
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    Which of the links are relevant to Snowden disclosure of the Prizm?
- warent 5y ago
  perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. that being said, in 2020: The panel held that the government may have violated the Fourth Amendment when it collected the telephony metadata of millions of Americans ... pursuant to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff5e80000 https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000174-4f61-de4a-ad7d-ffeff...
  - riku_iki 5y ago
    My understanding is that this is unrelated issue to what Snowden disclosed. > perhaps unsurprisingly it is still being fought in court, because the US government is very slow to investigate itself. Perhaps, it is slow because it is complicated topic, which is not clearly described in constitution: where to draw the line for personal privacy.
    - warent 5y ago
      Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? What government programs unrelated to Snowden's disclosure collect millions of Americans telephony metadata? Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll.
      - riku_iki 5y ago
        > Check page 13. They directly reference Snowden. I'm getting a strong sense that you are a troll. I sometimes make mistakes, I was not aware that Snowden leaked this program too. Anyway, illegality of this program is not proven yet, all collection happened under FISA warrants as I initially said, I think this was the topic? > Your understanding, based on ignoring the linked document? I obviously didn't go through all 60 pages of court document, I believe it was your burden to provide exact citation to support of your point for the sake of discussion.
- zauguin 5y ago
  Given the global scale I can assure you that the illegality has been proven in many affected countries. The main question is if it's also illegal in the US.

jollybean 5y ago

Oil refinery workers in remote areas get paid a fortune and live in low cost centres, they work for a few years and retire early. That does kind of sound like a punishment of the future: you have to do 'manual labour' - which people are so unwilling to do, that it also happens to be the highest paid. White collar workers make TikToks for lattes, Blue Collar workers are the high income earners. It's already kind of happening.

paxprose 5y ago
Oil refinery workers are generally college educated petrochemical engineers. Their "peers" in the corporate office often make much more than they do. I don't know of what refinery workers are "retiring early" but my grandfather's 30 year CITGO pin as well as cancer that runs through my family from proximity to those "low cost centers" leaves much to be desired of this rose tinted narrative you're describing.
- jollybean 5y ago
  "Oil refinery workers are generally college educated petrochemical engineers. " Alberta Oil workers are 1% 'petrochemical' Engineers. They are 'everything else'. Cooks, drivers, daycare workers, maintenance, carpenters, electricians, managers, team leads etc. etc. and earn about $120-200K, and while at the camp everything is provided for them in quantity (food is amazing if you like 'Denny's' kind of food).
- idiotsecant 5y ago
  An an engineer who worked in refineries in the US its pretty obvious to me that you haven't spent any time at all in a refinery or you'd know that the vast majority of people in a refinery are not engineers. They are pipe fitters, operators, electricians, welders, machinists, general laborers, managers, admin people, etc. Engineers are a small minority.
JKCalhoun 5y ago
I have read that most newly minted millionaires own their own construction/contractor business. I can say, anecdotally, when I lived in Silicon Valley the blue-collar guy down the street had his own house painting business and did alright as near as I could tell. I know he got in a few hours of golf during most days. Also on the golf course, realtors in the area.

exegete 5y ago

DARPA has funded a hummingbird drone prototype as of 10 years ago https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxtIPIDBnY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SgxtIPIDBnY

tedmiston 5y ago
I came here to say this too ^. I remember hearing research about these in 2012. I went to school right next to the Air Force Research Laboratory which controls a $2B+ budget, and there were research projects around biomimicry, etc. As your link shows, miniature drones that look like birds and mimic actual bird movements definitely exist. IIRC, there has been similar research devoted to small burrowing ground animals as well. How prevalent these are in the wild, and where and what they are used for is a whole other topic, but their existence is crystal clear. I wonder how many people outside of engineering fields actually know about this vs think it is some sort of science fiction.

hulahoof 5y ago

I can’t find the exact video but I have seen similar to these in videos from military expo’s https://www.thedronebird.com/aves/ https://www.thedronebird.com/aves/