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Are they pushing? Most documentation for Android dev is still Java. Or by default Java. It's only the Intelij guys pushing for Kotlin by creating a lockin in th

Are they pushing? Most documentation for Android dev is still Java. Or by default Java. It's only the Intelij guys pushing for Kotlin by creating a lockin in their IDE. One reason I refuse to use it.

pjmlp 5y ago
You have missed all the Kotlin only Jetpack libraries, NDK documentation now using Kotlin, Jetpack libraries originally released in Java now rewritten in Kotlin. They are still using Android Java on the system layers, because they aren't rewriting the whole stack. Even the update for Java 11 LTS subset on Android 13 is mostly likely caused by the Java ecosystem moving forward, than the willingness of Android team to support anything other than what can be desugared into Java 8 / DEX somehow. You are right in relation to JetBrains, they even acknowledge it on their blog post introducing Kotlin. https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2011/08/why-jetbrains-needs-kotlin/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2011/08/why-jetbrains-need... "And while the development tools for Kotlin itself are going to be free and open-source, the support for the enterprise development frameworks and tools will remain part of IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate, the commercial version of the IDE. And of course the framework support will be fully integrated with Kotlin."
- sedatk 5y ago
  > You have missed all the Kotlin only Jetpack libraries, NDK documentation now using Kotlin, Jetpack libraries originally released in Java now rewritten in Kotlin. Also, Oracle's lawsuit against Google for copying Java APIs.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    This doesn't compute, because Kotlin is heavily dependent on the Java ecosystem, regardless how Google screw up Sun and the Java community with their Android Java.
    - sedatk 5y ago
      I still see it as a passive aggressive move for Google to get back at Oracle. They can't back away from Java API completely but they can hurt Oracle by discrediting Java language.
carstenhag 5y ago
As an Android Dev: noone of us wants to do java projects anymore. If we had support for some recent versions maybe, but as it is, there's no going back. 0 of our recent or current projects still use java. Google is either moving/extending libs to natively integrate with kotlin (numerous -ktx libs) or they are kotlin-only (Compose) anyway. I don't really see the Jetbrains lock-in thing, because: Android Studio is free, you can use any other IDE with syntax highlighting and the terminal to run tests & to compile. If you want to blame someone for locking in android devs into Android Studio, it would be Google, because they build the previews into Android Studio afaik. But you would have the same criticism at Apple/XCode. Supporting one IDE is already tough I guess.

Are they pushing? Most documentation for Android dev is still Java. Or by default Java. It's only the Intelij guys pushing for Kotlin by creating a lockin in their IDE. One reason I refuse to use it.

pjmlp 5y ago

You have missed all the Kotlin only Jetpack libraries, NDK documentation now using Kotlin, Jetpack libraries originally released in Java now rewritten in Kotlin. They are still using Android Java on the system layers, because they aren't rewriting the whole stack. Even the update for Java 11 LTS subset on Android 13 is mostly likely caused by the Java ecosystem moving forward, than the willingness of Android team to support anything other than what can be desugared into Java 8 / DEX somehow. You are right in relation to JetBrains, they even acknowledge it on their blog post introducing Kotlin. https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2011/08/why-jetbrains-needs-kotlin/ https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2011/08/why-jetbrains-need... "And while the development tools for Kotlin itself are going to be free and open-source, the support for the enterprise development frameworks and tools will remain part of IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate, the commercial version of the IDE. And of course the framework support will be fully integrated with Kotlin."

sedatk 5y ago
> You have missed all the Kotlin only Jetpack libraries, NDK documentation now using Kotlin, Jetpack libraries originally released in Java now rewritten in Kotlin. Also, Oracle's lawsuit against Google for copying Java APIs.
- pjmlp 5y ago
  This doesn't compute, because Kotlin is heavily dependent on the Java ecosystem, regardless how Google screw up Sun and the Java community with their Android Java.
  - sedatk 5y ago
    I still see it as a passive aggressive move for Google to get back at Oracle. They can't back away from Java API completely but they can hurt Oracle by discrediting Java language.

carstenhag 5y ago

As an Android Dev: noone of us wants to do java projects anymore. If we had support for some recent versions maybe, but as it is, there's no going back. 0 of our recent or current projects still use java. Google is either moving/extending libs to natively integrate with kotlin (numerous -ktx libs) or they are kotlin-only (Compose) anyway. I don't really see the Jetbrains lock-in thing, because: Android Studio is free, you can use any other IDE with syntax highlighting and the terminal to run tests & to compile. If you want to blame someone for locking in android devs into Android Studio, it would be Google, because they build the previews into Android Studio afaik. But you would have the same criticism at Apple/XCode. Supporting one IDE is already tough I guess.