4 ms·

Aha is the American Dream be born to well off parents and emigrate to dodge a draft now?

memish 5y ago
The idea that his success is due to that is another olympic level contortion. He wasn't given millions of dollars to start, let alone billions. Even if he was, it would still be impressive converting that into Tesla and SpaceX, as opposed to a yacht. Realize that most people born to well off parents don't do shit. If insecurity needs an outlet, maybe redirect it to the rich kids of Instagram, not the guy who is helping solve climate change and get us back into space.
- tempest_ 5y ago
  I was not really commenting on how he achieved his success. I was commenting on the appeal to the "American Dream(tm)". Though if you want to follow it to the root if he was born black in the townships he likely would not have amounted to much, no matter how hard he worked it is unlikely he would have ever made it out of the country.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Seems a little strange to criticize the American Dream on the basis of South African apartheid.
Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
yes, the american dream being "born rich" is the postmodern satire re-enactment of the original. It features a white african for diversity.
- vba616 5y ago
  I don't understand why there would be something ironic, postmodern, satirical, or unexpected about a relatively privileged white South African who grew up in the era of apartheid being associated with space travel or other technology that is considered futuristic. Nothing has changed. It is still as it has always been. The US space program and the Moon landings can be traced directly back to Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun and his work at Peenemünde, utilizing slave labor to build rockets for Nazi Germany. "More people died building the V-2 rockets than were killed by it as a weapon" The course of history was shaped by Von Braun being terrified of the Soviets and choosing to surrender to Americans. Some people see this sort of historical note as extremely relevant to everything today, and some don't. I see nobody trying to bridge that gap.
  - Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
    Okay i explain the joke to you: First and foremost note how the comments upthread used the term "the american dream". Second note that "the american dream" is a media trope, a literary device and story we tell people to inspire them to follow certain ethics. The traditional american dream is about social upwards mobility from rags to riches, about a promise that all that is needed to become wealthy is hard work, determination, a bit of ingenuity and puritan virtues. In its classic version it often features an immigrant family who comes to america with nothing but worn out clothes, works hard jobs and long hours to create a livelihood, overcomes hardships and struggles so their kids can get an education and better jobs. It often also calls out oppression, poverty and war in the old world as reasons for migration and to further highlight the ideals of liberal society in america. The modern version ignored the generational aspect and instead focused on individuals becoming millionaires. Entertainment loves extremes, the lower the start and higher the end, the better. The quicker the journey, the better. And this became accelerated to the absurd. Be poor, wash dishes, millionaire. Since this is so very unlikely, and real people who fit it, like Rockefeller, became so unpresentable, media turned more and more towards fictitious comedies. Yet this version is still very dominant in culture, because it calls out a truth: when asked what the american dream is, many will say it is about becoming very rich. That is, what the modern american dreams of. Now in contemporary media we see a return to the original idea, but with twist lampshading its problems. Migration is no longer a central topic, america no longer the beacon of hope for the tired, poor, huddled masses. Instead we see a focus on the disenfranchised and marginalized within american society. The post-modern MTV generations version of the american dream is B-Rabbit living in a trailer park with his alcoholic mom, making it as a rapper despite his peers attacking him for having the wrong skin color. It plays the core straight about making it with hard work and being virtuous, but it doesn't only look at materialism and individualism, as it also expects society to hold its promise of being liberal. The postmodern loves to play with dualities and reversing structures. Lastly the post-modern satire version instead picks up the part that got dropped, the dream of becoming very rich. It teasers a protagonist from an african minority and reveals a wealthy and well educated white man from south africa. It shows upwards social movement from upper class to ultra rich, subverting the idealistic to instead highlight the reality that those who start well have more opportunities to venture and do even better. It holds up "being born rich" like Diogenes holds a plucked chicken, and calls out "behold: the american dream"

The idea that his success is due to that is another olympic level contortion. He wasn't given millions of dollars to start, let alone billions. Even if he was, it would still be impressive converting that into Tesla and SpaceX, as opposed to a yacht. Realize that most people born to well off parents don't do shit. If insecurity needs an outlet, maybe redirect it to the rich kids of Instagram, not the guy who is helping solve climate change and get us back into space.

tempest_ 5y ago
I was not really commenting on how he achieved his success. I was commenting on the appeal to the "American Dream(tm)". Though if you want to follow it to the root if he was born black in the townships he likely would not have amounted to much, no matter how hard he worked it is unlikely he would have ever made it out of the country.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Seems a little strange to criticize the American Dream on the basis of South African apartheid.

Jon_Lowtek 5y ago

yes, the american dream being "born rich" is the postmodern satire re-enactment of the original. It features a white african for diversity.

vba616 5y ago
I don't understand why there would be something ironic, postmodern, satirical, or unexpected about a relatively privileged white South African who grew up in the era of apartheid being associated with space travel or other technology that is considered futuristic. Nothing has changed. It is still as it has always been. The US space program and the Moon landings can be traced directly back to Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun and his work at Peenemünde, utilizing slave labor to build rockets for Nazi Germany. "More people died building the V-2 rockets than were killed by it as a weapon" The course of history was shaped by Von Braun being terrified of the Soviets and choosing to surrender to Americans. Some people see this sort of historical note as extremely relevant to everything today, and some don't. I see nobody trying to bridge that gap.
- Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
  Okay i explain the joke to you: First and foremost note how the comments upthread used the term "the american dream". Second note that "the american dream" is a media trope, a literary device and story we tell people to inspire them to follow certain ethics. The traditional american dream is about social upwards mobility from rags to riches, about a promise that all that is needed to become wealthy is hard work, determination, a bit of ingenuity and puritan virtues. In its classic version it often features an immigrant family who comes to america with nothing but worn out clothes, works hard jobs and long hours to create a livelihood, overcomes hardships and struggles so their kids can get an education and better jobs. It often also calls out oppression, poverty and war in the old world as reasons for migration and to further highlight the ideals of liberal society in america. The modern version ignored the generational aspect and instead focused on individuals becoming millionaires. Entertainment loves extremes, the lower the start and higher the end, the better. The quicker the journey, the better. And this became accelerated to the absurd. Be poor, wash dishes, millionaire. Since this is so very unlikely, and real people who fit it, like Rockefeller, became so unpresentable, media turned more and more towards fictitious comedies. Yet this version is still very dominant in culture, because it calls out a truth: when asked what the american dream is, many will say it is about becoming very rich. That is, what the modern american dreams of. Now in contemporary media we see a return to the original idea, but with twist lampshading its problems. Migration is no longer a central topic, america no longer the beacon of hope for the tired, poor, huddled masses. Instead we see a focus on the disenfranchised and marginalized within american society. The post-modern MTV generations version of the american dream is B-Rabbit living in a trailer park with his alcoholic mom, making it as a rapper despite his peers attacking him for having the wrong skin color. It plays the core straight about making it with hard work and being virtuous, but it doesn't only look at materialism and individualism, as it also expects society to hold its promise of being liberal. The postmodern loves to play with dualities and reversing structures. Lastly the post-modern satire version instead picks up the part that got dropped, the dream of becoming very rich. It teasers a protagonist from an african minority and reveals a wealthy and well educated white man from south africa. It shows upwards social movement from upper class to ultra rich, subverting the idealistic to instead highlight the reality that those who start well have more opportunities to venture and do even better. It holds up "being born rich" like Diogenes holds a plucked chicken, and calls out "behold: the american dream"