7 ms·

I see Tesla cars all over the place. I saw rockets take off from SpaceX. What charade? Also he often publicly thanks, congratulates and credits the Tesla and

by memish 5y ago

I see Tesla cars all over the place. I saw rockets take off from SpaceX. What charade? Also he often publicly thanks, congratulates and credits the Tesla and SpaceX teams. Here's a sample: https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A%40elonmusk%20%22team%22&src=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?q=from%3A%40elonmusk%20%22team%22... As you can see yourself, he's saying "great job team!" not "great job me!". I just don't get all these olympic level contortions around denying the achievements of an immigrant who made good on the American dream, and has done more for climate change than literally anyone. This is to be celebrated and embraced!

JaimeThompson 5y ago
FSD, Starlink never being jammed in Ukraine, Tesla Solar Roofs, and other such things are all things Musk has hyped up that are somewhat counter factual. Why does it matter where he came from?
- ehvatum 5y ago
  Because he’s an immigrant that made good on the American dream. That’s a powerful thing - some might even dare say, inspiring. I realize he’s white, so it doesn’t count, but it should.
  - JaimeThompson 5y ago
    Very interesting editing to your original post, when making such drastic edits that change the tone as much as you did it would be useful to make note of them so everyone knows. You asked about things he had said/promoted, or something like that, which I listed in the first sentence of my response, care to respond to them?
  - orestarod 5y ago
    He was a RICH immigrant that made good on the American Dream. Having a truckload of money ready for you before you venture out in the world would be inspiring for anyone, believe me.
    - cute_boi 5y ago
      Exactly! Many people underestimate the value of privileges'. Privileges' give "unfair" advantage. Anyway, there are many people like these and Elon is few among them that have successful ventures like Tesla or SpaceX.
    - memish 5y ago
      He may have started with less than the median American when he emigrated. Rich parent doesn't always equal rich kids. The ones that are mostly just consume. It's plainly obvious he's not some rich trust fund kid. Which is why so many people are threatened by Elon's success and project their own insecurity onto him. Unresolved personal insecurity and envy are a potent combination. I promise this is unhelpful and it's better to resolve one's own insecurity than to spend time projecting it.
      - cowsandmilk 5y ago
        > He may have started with less than the median American when he emigrated Except it is known that he didn’t. There is no need to speculate on the facts. Elon Musk is far more successful than anyone else who started with his financial resources. He has outperformed everyone in his wealth bracket. There’s no need to pretend he was abandoned by his family and came to the US destitute.
        memish 5y ago
        Do we know that? There are internet rumors vs what he, his mom and brother say about him showering at the YMCA and only being able to afford one computer when starting Zip2. That's why I said "may have", because his mom and brother aren't non-bias sources, and nor are insecure people on the Internet who want to explain away why they have achieved little despite having relatively the same or more privilege. The latter project this discomfort the most aggressively.
    - jeremiahhs 5y ago
      Proof that he was rich? Everything I've read says he arrived to America with a couple grand.
tempest_ 5y ago
Aha is the American Dream be born to well off parents and emigrate to dodge a draft now?
- memish 5y ago
  The idea that his success is due to that is another olympic level contortion. He wasn't given millions of dollars to start, let alone billions. Even if he was, it would still be impressive converting that into Tesla and SpaceX, as opposed to a yacht. Realize that most people born to well off parents don't do shit. If insecurity needs an outlet, maybe redirect it to the rich kids of Instagram, not the guy who is helping solve climate change and get us back into space.
  - tempest_ 5y ago
    I was not really commenting on how he achieved his success. I was commenting on the appeal to the "American Dream(tm)". Though if you want to follow it to the root if he was born black in the townships he likely would not have amounted to much, no matter how hard he worked it is unlikely he would have ever made it out of the country.
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      Seems a little strange to criticize the American Dream on the basis of South African apartheid.
- Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
  yes, the american dream being "born rich" is the postmodern satire re-enactment of the original. It features a white african for diversity.
  - vba616 5y ago
    I don't understand why there would be something ironic, postmodern, satirical, or unexpected about a relatively privileged white South African who grew up in the era of apartheid being associated with space travel or other technology that is considered futuristic. Nothing has changed. It is still as it has always been. The US space program and the Moon landings can be traced directly back to Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun and his work at Peenemünde, utilizing slave labor to build rockets for Nazi Germany. "More people died building the V-2 rockets than were killed by it as a weapon" The course of history was shaped by Von Braun being terrified of the Soviets and choosing to surrender to Americans. Some people see this sort of historical note as extremely relevant to everything today, and some don't. I see nobody trying to bridge that gap.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
bigodbiel 5y ago
Unless this takeover is being conducted by M&A professionals, and not the result of wine and ambien, I think OP has a point.
seadan83 5y ago
> and has done more for climate change than literally anyone What a sensationalist claim! What is the carbon offset of one rocket launch? If Elon stopped focusing on Mars, and instead bought every coal plant to then shutter and replace them (could be done for under 40b), then maybe. Until then, the few percentage of market share for EVs does not justify this claim. You also have to assume that every purchaser of a Tesla would have bought a gas car instead, which is seemingly not a safe assumption. So, citation needed! Maybe if elon purchased a train system and made public transit exceptional and widely used could a person start to make this claim. I thunk the sad reality is that elon is bored and us focused in sci fi that is more possible 500 to 100p years in the future (ie mars), at the expense of actually solving present day problems. Any regulation reducing coal emissions has an out-sized impact compared to a few percentage of emissions from non-commercial transport, the claim "more than anyone else" seems hyperbolic and just flat out wrong

by memish 5y ago

JaimeThompson 5y ago

FSD, Starlink never being jammed in Ukraine, Tesla Solar Roofs, and other such things are all things Musk has hyped up that are somewhat counter factual. Why does it matter where he came from?

ehvatum 5y ago
Because he’s an immigrant that made good on the American dream. That’s a powerful thing - some might even dare say, inspiring. I realize he’s white, so it doesn’t count, but it should.
- JaimeThompson 5y ago
  Very interesting editing to your original post, when making such drastic edits that change the tone as much as you did it would be useful to make note of them so everyone knows. You asked about things he had said/promoted, or something like that, which I listed in the first sentence of my response, care to respond to them?
- orestarod 5y ago
  He was a RICH immigrant that made good on the American Dream. Having a truckload of money ready for you before you venture out in the world would be inspiring for anyone, believe me.
  - cute_boi 5y ago
    Exactly! Many people underestimate the value of privileges'. Privileges' give "unfair" advantage. Anyway, there are many people like these and Elon is few among them that have successful ventures like Tesla or SpaceX.
  - memish 5y ago
    He may have started with less than the median American when he emigrated. Rich parent doesn't always equal rich kids. The ones that are mostly just consume. It's plainly obvious he's not some rich trust fund kid. Which is why so many people are threatened by Elon's success and project their own insecurity onto him. Unresolved personal insecurity and envy are a potent combination. I promise this is unhelpful and it's better to resolve one's own insecurity than to spend time projecting it.
    - cowsandmilk 5y ago
      > He may have started with less than the median American when he emigrated Except it is known that he didn’t. There is no need to speculate on the facts. Elon Musk is far more successful than anyone else who started with his financial resources. He has outperformed everyone in his wealth bracket. There’s no need to pretend he was abandoned by his family and came to the US destitute.
      - memish 5y ago
        Do we know that? There are internet rumors vs what he, his mom and brother say about him showering at the YMCA and only being able to afford one computer when starting Zip2. That's why I said "may have", because his mom and brother aren't non-bias sources, and nor are insecure people on the Internet who want to explain away why they have achieved little despite having relatively the same or more privilege. The latter project this discomfort the most aggressively.
  - jeremiahhs 5y ago
    Proof that he was rich? Everything I've read says he arrived to America with a couple grand.

tempest_ 5y ago

Aha is the American Dream be born to well off parents and emigrate to dodge a draft now?

memish 5y ago
The idea that his success is due to that is another olympic level contortion. He wasn't given millions of dollars to start, let alone billions. Even if he was, it would still be impressive converting that into Tesla and SpaceX, as opposed to a yacht. Realize that most people born to well off parents don't do shit. If insecurity needs an outlet, maybe redirect it to the rich kids of Instagram, not the guy who is helping solve climate change and get us back into space.
- tempest_ 5y ago
  I was not really commenting on how he achieved his success. I was commenting on the appeal to the "American Dream(tm)". Though if you want to follow it to the root if he was born black in the townships he likely would not have amounted to much, no matter how hard he worked it is unlikely he would have ever made it out of the country.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Seems a little strange to criticize the American Dream on the basis of South African apartheid.
Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
yes, the american dream being "born rich" is the postmodern satire re-enactment of the original. It features a white african for diversity.
- vba616 5y ago
  I don't understand why there would be something ironic, postmodern, satirical, or unexpected about a relatively privileged white South African who grew up in the era of apartheid being associated with space travel or other technology that is considered futuristic. Nothing has changed. It is still as it has always been. The US space program and the Moon landings can be traced directly back to Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun and his work at Peenemünde, utilizing slave labor to build rockets for Nazi Germany. "More people died building the V-2 rockets than were killed by it as a weapon" The course of history was shaped by Von Braun being terrified of the Soviets and choosing to surrender to Americans. Some people see this sort of historical note as extremely relevant to everything today, and some don't. I see nobody trying to bridge that gap.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

bigodbiel 5y ago

Unless this takeover is being conducted by M&A professionals, and not the result of wine and ambien, I think OP has a point.

seadan83 5y ago

> and has done more for climate change than literally anyone What a sensationalist claim! What is the carbon offset of one rocket launch? If Elon stopped focusing on Mars, and instead bought every coal plant to then shutter and replace them (could be done for under 40b), then maybe. Until then, the few percentage of market share for EVs does not justify this claim. You also have to assume that every purchaser of a Tesla would have bought a gas car instead, which is seemingly not a safe assumption. So, citation needed! Maybe if elon purchased a train system and made public transit exceptional and widely used could a person start to make this claim. I thunk the sad reality is that elon is bored and us focused in sci fi that is more possible 500 to 100p years in the future (ie mars), at the expense of actually solving present day problems. Any regulation reducing coal emissions has an out-sized impact compared to a few percentage of emissions from non-commercial transport, the claim "more than anyone else" seems hyperbolic and just flat out wrong