8 ms·

"I urge people who have a problem with drinking and wish to quit, who for whatever reason do not feel that 12 step programs like Alcoholics Anonymous" I urge p

by throwaway20382 4y ago

"I urge people who have a problem with drinking and wish to quit, who for whatever reason do not feel that 12 step programs like Alcoholics Anonymous" I urge people to see an addiction specialist first. Do not see AA first. See a doctor asap. This disease is serious and has a high fatality rate. AA meetings are like a club after you have it under control (EG. don't attend drunk). Disulfiram: An old military drug. This will stop you drinking but you need a significant other or parent involved. Each morning you must take the pill and your significant other needs watch to double check. Doctors are scared to prescribe this and the drug companies are ramping down it's production. Hoarding the drug is common. naltrexone: This comes in two forms. The pill and the shot. When you first take this you should do the shot form. The shot lasts 30 days and there is not a possibility of skipping out on pills. Naltrexone will ruin the Euphoria feeling of alcohol and opioids (so it's a kind of two for one). No addiction specialists back the 'the Sinclair Method' but do back daily use of Naltrexone. Rehab: Good short term, bad long term. Rehab failure rate is over %90. A normal rehab will run 10-30k per incident. Do not leave unless you had a Naltrexone shot. Longer stays will impact work, an unemployed Alcoholic is dangerous. Alcoholics Anonymous: Very* difficult for people with social anxiety. People that succeed here find a sponsor which is like dating. You will be rejected literally by tens of potential sponsors until one says yes (hang in there!). AA has a very high success rate for extroverts who become a sponsor - caring over others going through alcoholism seems to rewire the brain. Baker Acted/Marchman: If you have a family member (or a friend but you have family contacts) drinking to a point where they are unable to make decisions - you can file a Baker act. [Name varies wildly state to state]. A court can determine the individual needs intervention and can use state authorities to detain. Depending on your court appearance after 72 hours (don't be drunk lol) - the judge orders more jail time or programs.

QuantumYeti 4y ago
Another problem with AA is you don't know who is there voluntarily trying to get better, and who is there because they're a physically abusive alcoholic that was court-ordered to be there. There was also an uncomfortable amount of "thirteenth stepping" going on in my groups, where the single males running them ended up in relationships with women in the groups.
- dclusin 4y ago
  Kind of like vcs and startup founders who use their status to “mentor” women in tech just to try and get in their pants. Predation is not unique or exclusive to any organization or group.
holler 4y ago
> You will be rejected literally by tens of potential sponsors until one says yes (hang in there!) That's not true at all, but it's a club with millions of people. Other than that appreciate your breakdown.
- JonShartwell 4y ago
  Yeah, the 12th step is to sponsor people (among other things), there is no shortage
- webmobdev 4y ago
  I think s/he meant that finding a sponsor with whom you have a good rapport and willing to give you the time you need is the difficult part (hence, like "dating").
hilbert42 4y ago
"Rehab: Good short term, bad long term. Rehab failure rate is over %90." That's if you can even get the person into rehab at all! Just before last Christmas we buried a good longtime friend and colleague who'd died of liver cirrhosis. Nothing we did could get him into rehab. 'So what' you may say - he was just one more of many thousands. The trouble was that he was also an organic chemist by training yet even with this insight he couldn't stop his alcohol consumption. It was tragic really. I've come to the conclusion that those of us who aren't alcoholics have little or no conception of how the mind of an alcoholic works or why he/she finds it necessary to consume alcohol in such damaging quantities. Simply, we cannot get into their minds and perceive the world from their perspective. This is a huge problem as it often stops friends and or family from being effective helpers. As I see it, there's a perceptual barrier that separates alcoholics from those who aren't alcoholic. It's not a simple matter for a person who is not an alcoholic to put himself/herself into an alcoholic's mindset especially so if the alcoholic has no serious underlying psychological problems (if he/she did have then perhaps the person who's trying to help could envisage the alcoholic's state of mind - that of, say, depression, etc.). Essentially, even those of us who aren't alcoholics but who've experienced the effects of alcohol can't use that experience (of say, being drunk) as an analog to understand the alcoholic's mindset as both perceptions of the effects of alcohol are fundamentally different. Take my experience, I recall getting badly drunk in my student days and it was very unpleasant, since then on rare ocassions I've been what you'd call 'merry' from the effects of alcohol. Nevertheless, I find the effect of even a little alcohol both disturbing and mind-dulling and I deliberately avoid getting into that state. On the other hand, the alcoholic either experiences different physical effects from alcohol than I do and or his/her visceral perception of those physical effects of the alcohol are very different to mine. It seems to me that this difference in percetion between the alcoholic and us who aren't alcoholics is one of the reasons why we're often unsuccessful in helping them. If we cannot communicate on their level then we're at a disadvantage when we try to help them and or offer them support. That was what I experienced when I tried to help my former friend and colleague. Even though I knew him well and had done so for many years, it was clear to me that when it came to discussing alcohol that we spoke a different language. I'd hasten to add that at no time did I patronize him, nor was I intrusively paternalistic towards him. Essentially there was no effective communication between us on the matter of alcohol.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
MissionInfl 4y ago
> No addiction specialists back the 'the Sinclair Method' but do back daily use of Naltrexone. This is definitely not true having worked with addiction specialists on TSM myself. Plus I think it is safe to consider Sinclair himself as an addiction specialist For those looking to learn more about different ways to use Naltrexone to treat alcoholism: https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995 https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995

QuantumYeti 4y ago

Another problem with AA is you don't know who is there voluntarily trying to get better, and who is there because they're a physically abusive alcoholic that was court-ordered to be there. There was also an uncomfortable amount of "thirteenth stepping" going on in my groups, where the single males running them ended up in relationships with women in the groups.

dclusin 4y ago
Kind of like vcs and startup founders who use their status to “mentor” women in tech just to try and get in their pants. Predation is not unique or exclusive to any organization or group.

holler 4y ago

> You will be rejected literally by tens of potential sponsors until one says yes (hang in there!) That's not true at all, but it's a club with millions of people. Other than that appreciate your breakdown.

JonShartwell 4y ago
Yeah, the 12th step is to sponsor people (among other things), there is no shortage
webmobdev 4y ago
I think s/he meant that finding a sponsor with whom you have a good rapport and willing to give you the time you need is the difficult part (hence, like "dating").

hilbert42 4y ago

"Rehab: Good short term, bad long term. Rehab failure rate is over %90." That's if you can even get the person into rehab at all! Just before last Christmas we buried a good longtime friend and colleague who'd died of liver cirrhosis. Nothing we did could get him into rehab. 'So what' you may say - he was just one more of many thousands. The trouble was that he was also an organic chemist by training yet even with this insight he couldn't stop his alcohol consumption. It was tragic really. I've come to the conclusion that those of us who aren't alcoholics have little or no conception of how the mind of an alcoholic works or why he/she finds it necessary to consume alcohol in such damaging quantities. Simply, we cannot get into their minds and perceive the world from their perspective. This is a huge problem as it often stops friends and or family from being effective helpers. As I see it, there's a perceptual barrier that separates alcoholics from those who aren't alcoholic. It's not a simple matter for a person who is not an alcoholic to put himself/herself into an alcoholic's mindset especially so if the alcoholic has no serious underlying psychological problems (if he/she did have then perhaps the person who's trying to help could envisage the alcoholic's state of mind - that of, say, depression, etc.). Essentially, even those of us who aren't alcoholics but who've experienced the effects of alcohol can't use that experience (of say, being drunk) as an analog to understand the alcoholic's mindset as both perceptions of the effects of alcohol are fundamentally different. Take my experience, I recall getting badly drunk in my student days and it was very unpleasant, since then on rare ocassions I've been what you'd call 'merry' from the effects of alcohol. Nevertheless, I find the effect of even a little alcohol both disturbing and mind-dulling and I deliberately avoid getting into that state. On the other hand, the alcoholic either experiences different physical effects from alcohol than I do and or his/her visceral perception of those physical effects of the alcohol are very different to mine. It seems to me that this difference in percetion between the alcoholic and us who aren't alcoholics is one of the reasons why we're often unsuccessful in helping them. If we cannot communicate on their level then we're at a disadvantage when we try to help them and or offer them support. That was what I experienced when I tried to help my former friend and colleague. Even though I knew him well and had done so for many years, it was clear to me that when it came to discussing alcohol that we spoke a different language. I'd hasten to add that at no time did I patronize him, nor was I intrusively paternalistic towards him. Essentially there was no effective communication between us on the matter of alcohol.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

MissionInfl 4y ago

> No addiction specialists back the 'the Sinclair Method' but do back daily use of Naltrexone. This is definitely not true having worked with addiction specialists on TSM myself. Plus I think it is safe to consider Sinclair himself as an addiction specialist For those looking to learn more about different ways to use Naltrexone to treat alcoholism: https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995 https://academic.oup.com/alcalc/article/36/1/2/137995