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> The elites have somehow inverted history so they now believe that it is not censorship that is the favored tool of fascists and authoritarians, even though ev

> The elites have somehow inverted history so they now believe that it is not censorship that is the favored tool of fascists and authoritarians, even though every fascist and despot in history used censorship to maintain power, but instead believe free speech, free discourse, and free thought are the instruments of repression. It feels a little silly to act like the guy trying to spend billions of dollars to get his way represents anything more than an intra-elite conflict.

memish 5y ago
That's like saying SpaceX isn't about going to Mars and Tesla isn't about reducing carbon emissions. At this point we can say these are mission focused moves. This is about free speech in the public square.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Well if you want to identify with this particular elite faction rather than the other one that's your business.
- 4ggr0 5y ago
  You think Tesla is about reducing carbon emissions?
LMYahooTFY 5y ago
"his way" vs what? The way of a dozen other guys? Pushing for less censorship isn't "his way" - - I see you've edited to "intra-elite" conflict. So is basically every problem in society then given that governance is handled by few. Not sure what the point is here, just feels like a hollow dismissal.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  I didn't edit it. It always said that. And it is "his way" because "less censorship" almost certainly doesn't actually mean they just let people post whatever (and even if it did, do "we" all agree that would be a good idea? Probably not).
  - LMYahooTFY 5y ago
    My mistake, it's late for me. I'm still confused about what "less censorship" could mean, he seems pretty clear on it. And what governance happens public or private that "we" all agree on? Right now "we" don't agree on how Twitter operates currently. A couple dozen people do. I'm not understanding your point here.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      We’ve been hearing bad-faith censorship debates long enough to know how this song and dance goes, haven’t we? “If I say something, no matter how vacuous and offensive, that’s free speech. But if you criticize it or otherwise say something I disagree with, that’s censorship.” Beyond that, the idea of a totally unfettered Twitter is not really desirable. Such forums fill up with porn, gore, racism, and various other forms of shock content nobody actually wants on their feeds.
      - gameman144 5y ago
        I've seen no advocates of saying that individuals shouldn't be able to curate their own feeds, only that social media platforms shouldn't be restricting those feeds for them. For instance, if you decide that you want a Twitter feed that excludes porn, gore, racism, and other objectionable content, then you absolutely should be able to exclude those (I'd reckon that that'd be a very sensible default). If I want to go observe the crazy bigoted things that fringe groups are spewing, or if I want to use Twitter just as an endless feed of porn, then that doesn't affect your ability to not see those things. Likewise, I've not heard Musk propose banning any of his critics or opposing viewpoints (though I don't really follow his actions, so it's possible I've just missed them).
        andrepd 5y ago
        He has pursued aggressive union-busting, sued whistleblowers, sued people for posting videos that made telsa's """autopilot""" look bad. It's clear he doesn't give two shits about free speech, except when it costs him nothing to do so and therefore amounts to free virtue-signalling.
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
So what? .... if we, normal people get more free speech, and a few billionares swap some money around, it's still better then them just swapping money and we not getting any free speech.
- andrepd 5y ago
  What makes you think you will get any more free speech by the grace of Musk's intervention? He has repeatedly shown he is pro-free speech that he likes and anti-free speech he doesn't like.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    If disney bought twitter, I knew I wouldn't get any... with Musk, I can atleast hope. Either way, with billions involved, i have no say in whatever happens (because I don't have billions), but musk gives me higher hope than disney. Basically, I have nothing to lose, only to gain.
- emodendroket 5y ago
  Well that’s the thing. I don’t think we normal people are going to get more of a voice.
  - ajsnigrutin 5y ago
    So, then it doesn't matter... Rich people do what rich people do, with musk+twitter combo, there's atleast a chance you'll get more of a voice, with some other combo (eg. disney buying twitter), you already know there's zero chance for that.
    - emodendroket 5y ago
      I would not be surprised if the Musk regime is worse. Actually that's what I anticipate.

memish 5y ago

That's like saying SpaceX isn't about going to Mars and Tesla isn't about reducing carbon emissions. At this point we can say these are mission focused moves. This is about free speech in the public square.

emodendroket 5y ago
Well if you want to identify with this particular elite faction rather than the other one that's your business.
4ggr0 5y ago
You think Tesla is about reducing carbon emissions?

LMYahooTFY 5y ago

"his way" vs what? The way of a dozen other guys? Pushing for less censorship isn't "his way" - - I see you've edited to "intra-elite" conflict. So is basically every problem in society then given that governance is handled by few. Not sure what the point is here, just feels like a hollow dismissal.

emodendroket 5y ago
I didn't edit it. It always said that. And it is "his way" because "less censorship" almost certainly doesn't actually mean they just let people post whatever (and even if it did, do "we" all agree that would be a good idea? Probably not).
- LMYahooTFY 5y ago
  My mistake, it's late for me. I'm still confused about what "less censorship" could mean, he seems pretty clear on it. And what governance happens public or private that "we" all agree on? Right now "we" don't agree on how Twitter operates currently. A couple dozen people do. I'm not understanding your point here.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    We’ve been hearing bad-faith censorship debates long enough to know how this song and dance goes, haven’t we? “If I say something, no matter how vacuous and offensive, that’s free speech. But if you criticize it or otherwise say something I disagree with, that’s censorship.” Beyond that, the idea of a totally unfettered Twitter is not really desirable. Such forums fill up with porn, gore, racism, and various other forms of shock content nobody actually wants on their feeds.
    - gameman144 5y ago
      I've seen no advocates of saying that individuals shouldn't be able to curate their own feeds, only that social media platforms shouldn't be restricting those feeds for them. For instance, if you decide that you want a Twitter feed that excludes porn, gore, racism, and other objectionable content, then you absolutely should be able to exclude those (I'd reckon that that'd be a very sensible default). If I want to go observe the crazy bigoted things that fringe groups are spewing, or if I want to use Twitter just as an endless feed of porn, then that doesn't affect your ability to not see those things. Likewise, I've not heard Musk propose banning any of his critics or opposing viewpoints (though I don't really follow his actions, so it's possible I've just missed them).
      - andrepd 5y ago
        He has pursued aggressive union-busting, sued whistleblowers, sued people for posting videos that made telsa's """autopilot""" look bad. It's clear he doesn't give two shits about free speech, except when it costs him nothing to do so and therefore amounts to free virtue-signalling.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago

So what? .... if we, normal people get more free speech, and a few billionares swap some money around, it's still better then them just swapping money and we not getting any free speech.

andrepd 5y ago
What makes you think you will get any more free speech by the grace of Musk's intervention? He has repeatedly shown he is pro-free speech that he likes and anti-free speech he doesn't like.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  If disney bought twitter, I knew I wouldn't get any... with Musk, I can atleast hope. Either way, with billions involved, i have no say in whatever happens (because I don't have billions), but musk gives me higher hope than disney. Basically, I have nothing to lose, only to gain.
emodendroket 5y ago
Well that’s the thing. I don’t think we normal people are going to get more of a voice.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  So, then it doesn't matter... Rich people do what rich people do, with musk+twitter combo, there's atleast a chance you'll get more of a voice, with some other combo (eg. disney buying twitter), you already know there's zero chance for that.
  - emodendroket 5y ago
    I would not be surprised if the Musk regime is worse. Actually that's what I anticipate.