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Let me focus on this part of what I said in my first comment "joke made at the expense of innocent people simply trying to live their life." Would your joke ab

by slg 5y ago

Let me focus on this part of what I said in my first comment "joke made at the expense of innocent people simply trying to live their life." Would your joke about non-binary people be about the idea of being non-binary or at the expense of the people who are non-binary? The former is allowed. The latter is cruel regardless of your opinion on the science. Even if you believe that every non-binary person in the world is mentally ill and suffering from a mass delusion, why would you think it should be acceptable to mock the mentally ill? It is cruel regardless of politics.

vimy 5y ago
> Would your joke about non-binary people be about the idea of being non-binary or at the expense of the people who are non-binary? That line is so thin, one person might think it has been crossed while another might not. Ideally, the joke would be about the idea but some will say that’s still at the expense of those people. Mocking the mentally ill has been done for decades. I don’t think there should be any taboo in humor. There’s always someone who will be offended, no matter who or what you joke about. For the record, I don’t think non-binary people are mentally ill.
- slg 5y ago
  >That line is so thin, one person might think it has been crossed while another might not. Ideally, the joke would be about the idea but some will say that’s still at the expense of those people. This is shifting the goal posts. We were talking about cancel culture not offending one person. No one is cancelled when there is only a single person that objects. The problem is when large groups of people object. The line for that is not nearly as thin or hard to ascertain. >Mocking the mentally ill has been done for decades. Do I have to point out how silly this excuse is? People also spent centuries yelling the n-word as Black people. Should that still be acceptable today? >I don’t think there should be any taboo in humor. I have seen comedians joke about almost every controversial issue under the sun. The only real taboo in modern comedy is to not punch down. Mocking people who have historically been oppressed and who want nothing but the end of that oppression is punching down.
  - vimy 5y ago
    I don't agree that there is something as punching down. Jokes are jokes. Doesn't matter who makes them or who or what the joke is about. This is once again you thinking that your ideas are the norm. It's clear why you think that though, people who disagree get canceled and thus fringe ideas like punching down get pushed into the mainstream even though most people disagree with it. > Do I have to point out how silly this excuse is? People also spent centuries yelling the n-word as Black people. Should that still be acceptable today? You misunderstood, it's not an excuse, I'm saying there is no taboo on jokes about mental illness. Except in the progressive part of society, which is only 8 % of the US. There is nothing cruel about making jokes. They are just jokes. Don't like it, don't listen. It's not that hard. > Mocking people who have historically been oppressed and who want nothing but the end of that oppression is punching down. This line of reasoning doesn't even apply in this case, non-binary people haven't been historically oppressed as it didn't even exist 10 years ago, it was invented on tumblr by teens. 99,99 % of non-binary people are under 30, it's brand new.
    - slg 5y ago
      >I don't agree that there is something as punching down. Jokes are jokes. Doesn't matter who makes them or who or what the joke is about. This is once again you thinking that your ideas are the norm. This is not just my opinion. This is a rather mainstream opinion in the comedy community. >This line of reasoning doesn't even apply in this case, non-binary people haven't been historically oppressed as it didn't even exist 10 years ago, it was invented on tumblr by teens. 99,99 % of non-binary people are under 30, it's brand new. I'm not going to criticize your opinions of non-binary people, but this is statement of supposed fact that is simply wrong. There are plenty of examples of non-binary people throughout history and in various cultures. Just because the specific terminology we use today is relatively new does not mean these concepts are new. So whatever studying you claimed to have done about this issue, you should know that exercise was wildly incomplete and therefore your conclusions were at best premature.
      - vimy 5y ago
        No, I knew that and I stand by what I said. It didn't exist here until tumblr. There are also tribes who believed that every man in the village needs to have sex with a woman for her to get pregnant. I guess that's science now too. And the world is flat because that's what Europe in the Middle Ages believed. And again, we can't historically have oppressed something that didn't exist in society 10 years ago. Look at the numbers. It's all under 30. Look at the numbers for gay people, even before they were accepted by society. There were gay people in every age group, spread evenly by age. Not for non-binary. Why not? Where is the oppressed 70 year old non-binary person? That person doesn't exist. Anyway, I think we're wasting our time. We're not gonna convince each other. Thanks for staying civil. Have a great Easter.
mechanical_bear 5y ago
Yet… there are no witch hunts for those that mock creationists. Some things are acceptable to mock to leftists. I have seen a student kicked from the University where I am finishing my PhD for mocking LGBTQIAP issues…never have I seen someone kicked for making fun of the religious folks.
- slg 5y ago
  You missed the second part of my quote "innocent people simply trying to live their life". Mocking is often excused because many (but obviously not all) creationist will try to push their views on others. No one cares what your beliefs are. They care when you use those beliefs as a basis to impose your morality onto others. That opens them up to justifiable backlash. Non-binary people generally aren't pushing any belief beyond just wanting to live their life how they want to live it. The change they are looking for is acceptance.

by slg 5y ago

vimy 5y ago

> Would your joke about non-binary people be about the idea of being non-binary or at the expense of the people who are non-binary? That line is so thin, one person might think it has been crossed while another might not. Ideally, the joke would be about the idea but some will say that’s still at the expense of those people. Mocking the mentally ill has been done for decades. I don’t think there should be any taboo in humor. There’s always someone who will be offended, no matter who or what you joke about. For the record, I don’t think non-binary people are mentally ill.

slg 5y ago
>That line is so thin, one person might think it has been crossed while another might not. Ideally, the joke would be about the idea but some will say that’s still at the expense of those people. This is shifting the goal posts. We were talking about cancel culture not offending one person. No one is cancelled when there is only a single person that objects. The problem is when large groups of people object. The line for that is not nearly as thin or hard to ascertain. >Mocking the mentally ill has been done for decades. Do I have to point out how silly this excuse is? People also spent centuries yelling the n-word as Black people. Should that still be acceptable today? >I don’t think there should be any taboo in humor. I have seen comedians joke about almost every controversial issue under the sun. The only real taboo in modern comedy is to not punch down. Mocking people who have historically been oppressed and who want nothing but the end of that oppression is punching down.
- vimy 5y ago
  I don't agree that there is something as punching down. Jokes are jokes. Doesn't matter who makes them or who or what the joke is about. This is once again you thinking that your ideas are the norm. It's clear why you think that though, people who disagree get canceled and thus fringe ideas like punching down get pushed into the mainstream even though most people disagree with it. > Do I have to point out how silly this excuse is? People also spent centuries yelling the n-word as Black people. Should that still be acceptable today? You misunderstood, it's not an excuse, I'm saying there is no taboo on jokes about mental illness. Except in the progressive part of society, which is only 8 % of the US. There is nothing cruel about making jokes. They are just jokes. Don't like it, don't listen. It's not that hard. > Mocking people who have historically been oppressed and who want nothing but the end of that oppression is punching down. This line of reasoning doesn't even apply in this case, non-binary people haven't been historically oppressed as it didn't even exist 10 years ago, it was invented on tumblr by teens. 99,99 % of non-binary people are under 30, it's brand new.
  - slg 5y ago
    >I don't agree that there is something as punching down. Jokes are jokes. Doesn't matter who makes them or who or what the joke is about. This is once again you thinking that your ideas are the norm. This is not just my opinion. This is a rather mainstream opinion in the comedy community. >This line of reasoning doesn't even apply in this case, non-binary people haven't been historically oppressed as it didn't even exist 10 years ago, it was invented on tumblr by teens. 99,99 % of non-binary people are under 30, it's brand new. I'm not going to criticize your opinions of non-binary people, but this is statement of supposed fact that is simply wrong. There are plenty of examples of non-binary people throughout history and in various cultures. Just because the specific terminology we use today is relatively new does not mean these concepts are new. So whatever studying you claimed to have done about this issue, you should know that exercise was wildly incomplete and therefore your conclusions were at best premature.
    - vimy 5y ago
      No, I knew that and I stand by what I said. It didn't exist here until tumblr. There are also tribes who believed that every man in the village needs to have sex with a woman for her to get pregnant. I guess that's science now too. And the world is flat because that's what Europe in the Middle Ages believed. And again, we can't historically have oppressed something that didn't exist in society 10 years ago. Look at the numbers. It's all under 30. Look at the numbers for gay people, even before they were accepted by society. There were gay people in every age group, spread evenly by age. Not for non-binary. Why not? Where is the oppressed 70 year old non-binary person? That person doesn't exist. Anyway, I think we're wasting our time. We're not gonna convince each other. Thanks for staying civil. Have a great Easter.

mechanical_bear 5y ago

Yet… there are no witch hunts for those that mock creationists. Some things are acceptable to mock to leftists. I have seen a student kicked from the University where I am finishing my PhD for mocking LGBTQIAP issues…never have I seen someone kicked for making fun of the religious folks.

slg 5y ago
You missed the second part of my quote "innocent people simply trying to live their life". Mocking is often excused because many (but obviously not all) creationist will try to push their views on others. No one cares what your beliefs are. They care when you use those beliefs as a basis to impose your morality onto others. That opens them up to justifiable backlash. Non-binary people generally aren't pushing any belief beyond just wanting to live their life how they want to live it. The change they are looking for is acceptance.