3 ms·

You can support free speech and still ask people not to say things. I think cancel culture is bad. And people should stop trying to get people fired for saying

You can support free speech and still ask people not to say things. I think cancel culture is bad. And people should stop trying to get people fired for saying something (especially if it was said ages ago) I'm not going to force you to stop. Just consider what you are doing. You are basically wishing the person would die (or before a ward of the state) is that the proper consequence of speech? As a society we have agreed that somethings shouldn't be said. Like the n word. You aren't forced to not say it. By the same token we can agree that cancel culture is bad and chills speech. We, as a free society, should strive to keep speech free. Not look for ways to shut it down. I may not like what you say, but I'll fight for your right to say it, had become I don't like what you say so I will do everything in my power to prevent you from saying it

TameAntelope 5y ago
The problem you keep running into is that if we, as a society, value free speech, then we, as a society, also value the angry mob, because they are also exhibiting free speech! You can't just ignore the angry mob's rights, just because you don't like what they're saying. If you like free speech and dislike cancel culture, the people to be angry at are the decision makers who kowtow to the mob's demands, not the mob itself (since they're just exercising their free speech, which you claim to support), but even then, aren't those decision makers just expressing themselves, too?
- ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
  I'm in complete agreement that workers' rights should be stronger and protect them from quisling employers. But there is also something to be said about the technological mechanisms that allow the mass-mob to form. For example in the case of people who have a few hundred followers and end up with hundreds of thousands of people talking about them, there is a hateful amplification that should not be enabled.
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    > I'm in complete agreement that workers' rights should be stronger and protect them from quisling employers. But there is also something to be said about the technological mechanisms that allow the mass-mob to form. Agreed entirely, but it’s interesting to note that 99% of the public discourse here on HN and also elsewhere focuses on the technical mechanisms and almost none of the discussion is about workers rights. As the parent points out, the free speech position against cancel culture is internally inconsistent. That’s why these discussions have no solutions; because the paradox of increasing free speech by restricting free speech is never resolved. Which is why I think we need to move past the idea of the mob. The mob has no power if your employer can’t fire you capriciously and ruin your life. That power exists irrespective of cancel culture, and needs to be curbed. Doing so would also serve to restrict corporate power considerably, which is why I believe this area of discussion goes unaddressed (it’s that there are a lot of people who are both anti cancel culture but pro corporate power.)
    - ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
      Yeah, I think that's the silicon valley effect. I often feel at odds with the majority viewpoint here when things like the free market, welfare, or regulations are being discussed. Though in this case, I think the technological perspective makes the inconsistency you're speaking off disappear. It's arguable but I don't think free speech, left to its own devices, leads to these mass mobs as often as we're seeing it on Twitter & Cie. Our culture is being shaped by recommendation algorithms, that needs to be addressed along with workers' rights.

TameAntelope 5y ago

The problem you keep running into is that if we, as a society, value free speech, then we, as a society, also value the angry mob, because they are also exhibiting free speech! You can't just ignore the angry mob's rights, just because you don't like what they're saying. If you like free speech and dislike cancel culture, the people to be angry at are the decision makers who kowtow to the mob's demands, not the mob itself (since they're just exercising their free speech, which you claim to support), but even then, aren't those decision makers just expressing themselves, too?

ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
I'm in complete agreement that workers' rights should be stronger and protect them from quisling employers. But there is also something to be said about the technological mechanisms that allow the mass-mob to form. For example in the case of people who have a few hundred followers and end up with hundreds of thousands of people talking about them, there is a hateful amplification that should not be enabled.
- ModernMech 5y ago
  > I'm in complete agreement that workers' rights should be stronger and protect them from quisling employers. But there is also something to be said about the technological mechanisms that allow the mass-mob to form. Agreed entirely, but it’s interesting to note that 99% of the public discourse here on HN and also elsewhere focuses on the technical mechanisms and almost none of the discussion is about workers rights. As the parent points out, the free speech position against cancel culture is internally inconsistent. That’s why these discussions have no solutions; because the paradox of increasing free speech by restricting free speech is never resolved. Which is why I think we need to move past the idea of the mob. The mob has no power if your employer can’t fire you capriciously and ruin your life. That power exists irrespective of cancel culture, and needs to be curbed. Doing so would also serve to restrict corporate power considerably, which is why I believe this area of discussion goes unaddressed (it’s that there are a lot of people who are both anti cancel culture but pro corporate power.)
  - ad404b8a372f2b9 5y ago
    Yeah, I think that's the silicon valley effect. I often feel at odds with the majority viewpoint here when things like the free market, welfare, or regulations are being discussed. Though in this case, I think the technological perspective makes the inconsistency you're speaking off disappear. It's arguable but I don't think free speech, left to its own devices, leads to these mass mobs as often as we're seeing it on Twitter & Cie. Our culture is being shaped by recommendation algorithms, that needs to be addressed along with workers' rights.