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For everyone reading, being on the hiring side I would advise against bootcamps. We pretty much stopped recruiting from those because the signal to noise ratio

For everyone reading, being on the hiring side I would advise against bootcamps. We pretty much stopped recruiting from those because the signal to noise ratio was just too low. It seems a lot of bootcamps teach with rote, rather than by looking at the underlying concepts. My favorite example is git. I've seen bootcamp grads claim they can use git, but what it really meant is that they memorized a few git commands and as long as they don't stray too far from those, they can sort of work using git. But cherry-picking, rebase, proper branching forget it. I'm extremely skeptical of bootcamps, especially after learning that some of the TA's at Lambda (the most famous one) are hired to help with teaching as little as two months into the program as students[0]. I guess that counts toward their "placement" stats! Not only that, but Lambda seems so desperate that they will offer a fresh grad at no cost to any company for a 4 weeks trial period. [1]. And that's, sadly, the most high profile one out there. Notice there's no "Law Bootcamp" out there. [0] https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-placement-rate-is-lower-than-claimed.html https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/lambda-schools-job-p... [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25138610 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25138610

slothtrop 5y ago
They don't teach git in CS either (in depth), but I expect you're right on rote memorization. The whole draw is they could be completed in as little as a few months, for relatively low expense. On the other hand I see complaints that many CS grads "can't code". So what does that leave you?
- theWreckluse 5y ago
  I can't do quite a few git commands off my memory either, in spite of working for years.
ec109685 5y ago
Wow, in order to source from Bloom, you have to pay a membership fee to Bloom, and even then, you aren’t allowed access to their database. How is this candidate first? Their FAQ also says they changed their name to reflect their mission better, except the founder has flat out said it was due to trademark issues. Their list of companies are those that hired someone who graduated from bloom, not a company that is a member of their Fellowship program. Sketchy.
canes123456 5y ago
I would assume that true of most of the senior devs in bigger companies I worked for. They just follow the normal get process every time and never have to consider rebasing or cherry-picking
idunnoman 5y ago
I feel like this is the opposite of what you are claiming you want. The common git workflow would be the thing you expect people to know off the top of their head. The uncommon less frequent ideas may need documentation. Having team members memorize esoteric commands isn't the signal you're looking for. You want people who can read documentation and execute. Tooling requirements change all the time. Knowing one tool really well doesn't mean anything. I care that you can pick up any tool, at any time and have a path forward to productivity. To be fair and to agree with your original point, memorization isn't that path forward.

slothtrop 5y ago

They don't teach git in CS either (in depth), but I expect you're right on rote memorization. The whole draw is they could be completed in as little as a few months, for relatively low expense. On the other hand I see complaints that many CS grads "can't code". So what does that leave you?

theWreckluse 5y ago
I can't do quite a few git commands off my memory either, in spite of working for years.

ec109685 5y ago

Wow, in order to source from Bloom, you have to pay a membership fee to Bloom, and even then, you aren’t allowed access to their database. How is this candidate first? Their FAQ also says they changed their name to reflect their mission better, except the founder has flat out said it was due to trademark issues. Their list of companies are those that hired someone who graduated from bloom, not a company that is a member of their Fellowship program. Sketchy.

canes123456 5y ago

I would assume that true of most of the senior devs in bigger companies I worked for. They just follow the normal get process every time and never have to consider rebasing or cherry-picking

idunnoman 5y ago

I feel like this is the opposite of what you are claiming you want. The common git workflow would be the thing you expect people to know off the top of their head. The uncommon less frequent ideas may need documentation. Having team members memorize esoteric commands isn't the signal you're looking for. You want people who can read documentation and execute. Tooling requirements change all the time. Knowing one tool really well doesn't mean anything. I care that you can pick up any tool, at any time and have a path forward to productivity. To be fair and to agree with your original point, memorization isn't that path forward.