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I recommend you sit down and do the math, assuming you are based on the west coast in LA or the valley, and need to make a living, save for retirement, pay your

by b20000 5y ago

I recommend you sit down and do the math, assuming you are based on the west coast in LA or the valley, and need to make a living, save for retirement, pay your taxes, put kids through school, account for the possibility you might become ill or disabled, and more. It's clear you have no idea what it costs to be self employed.

gregjor 5y ago
I’m glad it’s clear to you that I have no idea what it costs to be self-employed on the west coast, since I already posted that I’ve been self-employed for 15 years, on the west coast. I’ve raised three kids too. It doesn’t cost a million dollars a year. Lots of people manage on less than $100K/year, which is $50/hr working full-time. I’m not sure what you’re arguing about. I don’t have a mindset of “I can only charge $60,” you put that into my mouth. Freelancing rates for programmers and system admins range from $60 to $200/hr, across the US, higher in some regions than others, and more or less depending on skills, demand, and the freelancer’s ability to sell themselves and negotiate. Yes, I know some freelancers get a lot more than $200/hr, but they’re rare. For every one of them you can find 1,000 freelancers on Upwork competing for $25/hr gigs. I certainly could live comfortably in the Bay Area or LA on $100 - $150/hr if I could do that for 40 hrs/week — that’s $200k - $300k/year. That would include the taxes and savings and insurance too. I know because I’ve done it. With kids. You wrote that downtime is going to happen sooner or later. That hasn’t been my experience. If a freelancer has prolonged or frequent periods of downtime they’re doing something wrong, because the work is there, demand far exceeds supply. I’ve worked professionally as a programmer, system admin, and team lead for over 40 years, so I can say confidently that there’s never been as much work available as now. A professional freelancer has to maintain and constantly upgrade their skills and target the market so they can get premium rates, above $60/hr. They also have to cultivate their professional network, maintain a reputation, and do everything they can to avoid downtime and non-billable hours spent looking for customers and bidding on projects. In another post I wrote that one way to do that is to develop long-term relationships and negotiate monthly retainers, which may be a little less per hour but prevent downtime and uncertainty. While I do the math you should do the research. I have a fairly good idea of freelancer rates in the US because I’ve been doing that for a while. But don’t believe me — data is easy to find. https://www.upwork.com/resources/how-much-do-freelancers-make https://www.upwork.com/resources/how-much-do-freelancers-mak... https://hubstaff.com/time-tracking/average-hourly-rates https://hubstaff.com/time-tracking/average-hourly-rates https://www.statista.com/statistics/1181210/tech-startups-hourly-rates-freelance-developers/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1181210/tech-startups-ho... https://www.codementor.io/freelance-rates/full-stack-developers https://www.codementor.io/freelance-rates/full-stack-develop... Etc. Thanks for the math lesson and ad hominem.

by b20000 5y ago

gregjor 5y ago

I’m glad it’s clear to you that I have no idea what it costs to be self-employed on the west coast, since I already posted that I’ve been self-employed for 15 years, on the west coast. I’ve raised three kids too. It doesn’t cost a million dollars a year. Lots of people manage on less than $100K/year, which is $50/hr working full-time. I’m not sure what you’re arguing about. I don’t have a mindset of “I can only charge $60,” you put that into my mouth. Freelancing rates for programmers and system admins range from $60 to $200/hr, across the US, higher in some regions than others, and more or less depending on skills, demand, and the freelancer’s ability to sell themselves and negotiate. Yes, I know some freelancers get a lot more than $200/hr, but they’re rare. For every one of them you can find 1,000 freelancers on Upwork competing for $25/hr gigs. I certainly could live comfortably in the Bay Area or LA on $100 - $150/hr if I could do that for 40 hrs/week — that’s $200k - $300k/year. That would include the taxes and savings and insurance too. I know because I’ve done it. With kids. You wrote that downtime is going to happen sooner or later. That hasn’t been my experience. If a freelancer has prolonged or frequent periods of downtime they’re doing something wrong, because the work is there, demand far exceeds supply. I’ve worked professionally as a programmer, system admin, and team lead for over 40 years, so I can say confidently that there’s never been as much work available as now. A professional freelancer has to maintain and constantly upgrade their skills and target the market so they can get premium rates, above $60/hr. They also have to cultivate their professional network, maintain a reputation, and do everything they can to avoid downtime and non-billable hours spent looking for customers and bidding on projects. In another post I wrote that one way to do that is to develop long-term relationships and negotiate monthly retainers, which may be a little less per hour but prevent downtime and uncertainty. While I do the math you should do the research. I have a fairly good idea of freelancer rates in the US because I’ve been doing that for a while. But don’t believe me — data is easy to find. https://www.upwork.com/resources/how-much-do-freelancers-make https://www.upwork.com/resources/how-much-do-freelancers-mak... https://hubstaff.com/time-tracking/average-hourly-rates https://hubstaff.com/time-tracking/average-hourly-rates https://www.statista.com/statistics/1181210/tech-startups-hourly-rates-freelance-developers/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1181210/tech-startups-ho... https://www.codementor.io/freelance-rates/full-stack-developers https://www.codementor.io/freelance-rates/full-stack-develop... Etc. Thanks for the math lesson and ad hominem.