5 ms·

Employers have way too much power over H-1B visa holders. I don't know what the exact policy change should be, but something needs to make changing employers ea

Employers have way too much power over H-1B visa holders. I don't know what the exact policy change should be, but something needs to make changing employers easier and faster. The entire "hire cheap labor from overseas" profit making/exploitation plan only works as long that labor can't walk across the street for a raise.

marcholagao 5y ago
> exploitation plan only works as long that labor can't walk That's not true. If H1-Bs were not a good deal for the guest workers, there wouldn't be a 10 year waiting list to get one. Living standards are so much higher in the United States due to massive infrastructure investments than in the countries most of these guest workers come from that accepting a lower wage than an American would otherwise earn is still a once in a lifetime opportunity for them. The workers being exploited by wage depression here are the American ones, and that's not even addressing the infrastructure costs of a growing population which is distributed evenly instead of being born solely by those incurring the cost. > Companies also have to do prevailing wage checks, which often results in pay increases. How? In my experience H1Bs always make less because they are taking a hit in pay in order to benefit from the public services they wouldn't get in their home country.
- MathMonkeyMan 5y ago
  Exploitation is exploitation even if it affords better opportunities than taking a pass. That said, I don't know any of the subtle points of the visa system.
- ec109685 5y ago
  Companies also have to do prevailing wage checks, which often results in pay increases.
  - geraldwhen 5y ago
    Supply lowers price. H1bs lower the pay of software developers in the USA, full stop.
- jmpman 5y ago
  There’s too much money being left on the table. The government should be levying a hefty tax on every H1B, like $20k/year. That tax should then be used to fund merit based scholarships for US Citizens pursing a degree in the field of the H1B. If the argument is that we don’t have the skills in the US, then let’s use the H1B program to create those skills.
- amf12 5y ago
  > That's not true. If H1-Bs were not a good deal for the guest workers, there wouldn't be a 10 year waiting list to get one How about this: If below minimum wage illegal work wasn't a good deal for guest workers, there wouldn't be illegal immigration to the US. This doesn't mean its not exploitation, although not every H1B is being exploited. > The workers being exploited by wage depression here are the American ones 85K new H1B's a year aren't enough to depress wages when the population of the US is 300M+. Especially when there is record demand across industries. Look at tech, every company wants to hire more and is competing with high salaries. > and that's not even addressing the infrastructure costs of a growing population which is distributed evenly instead of being born solely by those incurring the cost. I don't understand this point. Isn't every citizen benefiting from the improved, expanded infrastructure? Legal immigrants like H1Bs pay the same taxes as any citizen or a permanent resident.
  - paulgb 5y ago
    > Legal immigrants like H1Bs pay the same taxes as any citizen or a permanent resident. Moreover, primary H-1B holders are basically by definition selected to be the subset of the population that poses a negative burden on society. They have a steady job (if they lose it they get deported); they have health and criminal background checks; they are college-educated. Some other country took the burden of educating them and took on the risk that they’d turn out to be a deadbeat, and the US receives them as a taxpaying adult. (Full disclosure, I was an H-1B holder.)
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - pyuser583 5y ago
      I wasn’t aware an H1-B holder was subject to deportation as soon as they lost their job. I thought losing your job created a weird legal grey area, where you were allowed to stay in the country and look for work, but couldn’t reenter if you left.
      - samspenc 5y ago
- yes_really 5y ago
  > That's not true. If H1-Bs were not a good deal for the guest workers, there wouldn't be a 10 year waiting list to get one. Are you confusing H1-B with the Green Card queue? I'm not aware of any queue for H1-B - just the annual lottery.
- nunez 5y ago
  Precisely. Getting into a job that accepts H1-B's seemed like big business in India when I was there. Saw ads for it and everything. Not surprising; even a low-end H1-B wage is many multiples over what you'd get for the same job in India, and the living conditions are way better.
bsder 5y ago
The simple solution is that an H1-B visa automatically converts to a green card in 12 months. The sponsoring corporation is responsible for completing any necessary checks within that time period. This takes care of wage suppression as people can leave after a year. This takes care of body shops clogging the pipelines as they have to spend their own money to finish the checks. This takes care of the limited number of visas as the pipeline empties every 12 months without fail. This solves almost all the H1-B idiocy. This is, of course, why no one in the valley ever proposes this solution.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > The simple solution is that an H1-B visa automatically converts to a green card in 12 months. The simple solution is “just abolish the H-1B”. If you want more employment-based immigrant visas, just increase the number of visas issued in the employment-based categories, and eliminate the domestic-wage-suppressing-guest-worker-visa-with-bureaucratic-overhead-to-pretend-its-not-for-suppressing-domestic-wages.
  - ta988 5y ago
    There are different categories of H-1B including for academics, you can't just abolish things like that. It is also a good way for people with unique skills (usually not in software) to wait for their green card availability.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > There are different categories of H-1B including for academics, you can't just abolish things like. Yes, you can. Someone might want to make the case that preserving H-1B for just academics in the case of general elimination is a good idea, but it's not the simple solution. > It is also a good way for people with unique skills (usually not in software) to wait for their green card availability. If you increase the number of, and properly allocate, visas in employment-based immigrant categories, you don't need a dual-intent non-immigrant visa category for people to “wait out” in. (You could further fix the waiting-out problem by eliminating per-country limits, and applying only the global limits in visa categories; it's the per-country limits that create the really absurd wait times.) Simple: if you want to accommodate more employment-based immigrants, increase employment-based immigrant visas rather than keeping an employment-based, mobility-limiting non-immigrant visa category around, but make it a possible immigration funnel because it allows dual intent.
ksajadi 5y ago
Once you have an H1B you’re exempt from the lottery draw which is the biggest deterrent for hiring in the first place. This makes switching employers very easy and therefore reduces the “employer lock-in”
908B64B197 5y ago
> "hire cheap labor from overseas" Many years ago we had to relocate engineers from Switzerland, France and Canada in the US after an acquisition. Most of them on H1s or O1s and it sure wasn't cheaper than US devs here in the valley. > only works as long that labor can't walk across the street for a raise. They absolutely can. It's a trivial filing for an immigration attorney.
- SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
  Employer: Can we legally hire you? Applicant: You absolutely can! Employer: Great! Applicant: It's a trivial filing. Employer: Ugh, okay. Applicant: For an immigration attorney. Employer: click
rhuru 5y ago
Correct but then the anti immigration lobby hates the hires and not the employers so all the regulation to protect the worker invariably is aimed at harassing the worker. As soon as trump admin started my harassment I ahd to join faang to protect myself.

marcholagao 5y ago

> exploitation plan only works as long that labor can't walk That's not true. If H1-Bs were not a good deal for the guest workers, there wouldn't be a 10 year waiting list to get one. Living standards are so much higher in the United States due to massive infrastructure investments than in the countries most of these guest workers come from that accepting a lower wage than an American would otherwise earn is still a once in a lifetime opportunity for them. The workers being exploited by wage depression here are the American ones, and that's not even addressing the infrastructure costs of a growing population which is distributed evenly instead of being born solely by those incurring the cost. > Companies also have to do prevailing wage checks, which often results in pay increases. How? In my experience H1Bs always make less because they are taking a hit in pay in order to benefit from the public services they wouldn't get in their home country.

MathMonkeyMan 5y ago
Exploitation is exploitation even if it affords better opportunities than taking a pass. That said, I don't know any of the subtle points of the visa system.
ec109685 5y ago
Companies also have to do prevailing wage checks, which often results in pay increases.
- geraldwhen 5y ago
  Supply lowers price. H1bs lower the pay of software developers in the USA, full stop.
jmpman 5y ago
There’s too much money being left on the table. The government should be levying a hefty tax on every H1B, like $20k/year. That tax should then be used to fund merit based scholarships for US Citizens pursing a degree in the field of the H1B. If the argument is that we don’t have the skills in the US, then let’s use the H1B program to create those skills.
amf12 5y ago
> That's not true. If H1-Bs were not a good deal for the guest workers, there wouldn't be a 10 year waiting list to get one How about this: If below minimum wage illegal work wasn't a good deal for guest workers, there wouldn't be illegal immigration to the US. This doesn't mean its not exploitation, although not every H1B is being exploited. > The workers being exploited by wage depression here are the American ones 85K new H1B's a year aren't enough to depress wages when the population of the US is 300M+. Especially when there is record demand across industries. Look at tech, every company wants to hire more and is competing with high salaries. > and that's not even addressing the infrastructure costs of a growing population which is distributed evenly instead of being born solely by those incurring the cost. I don't understand this point. Isn't every citizen benefiting from the improved, expanded infrastructure? Legal immigrants like H1Bs pay the same taxes as any citizen or a permanent resident.
- paulgb 5y ago
  > Legal immigrants like H1Bs pay the same taxes as any citizen or a permanent resident. Moreover, primary H-1B holders are basically by definition selected to be the subset of the population that poses a negative burden on society. They have a steady job (if they lose it they get deported); they have health and criminal background checks; they are college-educated. Some other country took the burden of educating them and took on the risk that they’d turn out to be a deadbeat, and the US receives them as a taxpaying adult. (Full disclosure, I was an H-1B holder.)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - pyuser583 5y ago
    I wasn’t aware an H1-B holder was subject to deportation as soon as they lost their job. I thought losing your job created a weird legal grey area, where you were allowed to stay in the country and look for work, but couldn’t reenter if you left.
    - samspenc 5y ago
yes_really 5y ago
> That's not true. If H1-Bs were not a good deal for the guest workers, there wouldn't be a 10 year waiting list to get one. Are you confusing H1-B with the Green Card queue? I'm not aware of any queue for H1-B - just the annual lottery.
nunez 5y ago
Precisely. Getting into a job that accepts H1-B's seemed like big business in India when I was there. Saw ads for it and everything. Not surprising; even a low-end H1-B wage is many multiples over what you'd get for the same job in India, and the living conditions are way better.

bsder 5y ago

The simple solution is that an H1-B visa automatically converts to a green card in 12 months. The sponsoring corporation is responsible for completing any necessary checks within that time period. This takes care of wage suppression as people can leave after a year. This takes care of body shops clogging the pipelines as they have to spend their own money to finish the checks. This takes care of the limited number of visas as the pipeline empties every 12 months without fail. This solves almost all the H1-B idiocy. This is, of course, why no one in the valley ever proposes this solution.

dragonwriter 5y ago
> The simple solution is that an H1-B visa automatically converts to a green card in 12 months. The simple solution is “just abolish the H-1B”. If you want more employment-based immigrant visas, just increase the number of visas issued in the employment-based categories, and eliminate the domestic-wage-suppressing-guest-worker-visa-with-bureaucratic-overhead-to-pretend-its-not-for-suppressing-domestic-wages.
- ta988 5y ago
  There are different categories of H-1B including for academics, you can't just abolish things like that. It is also a good way for people with unique skills (usually not in software) to wait for their green card availability.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > There are different categories of H-1B including for academics, you can't just abolish things like. Yes, you can. Someone might want to make the case that preserving H-1B for just academics in the case of general elimination is a good idea, but it's not the simple solution. > It is also a good way for people with unique skills (usually not in software) to wait for their green card availability. If you increase the number of, and properly allocate, visas in employment-based immigrant categories, you don't need a dual-intent non-immigrant visa category for people to “wait out” in. (You could further fix the waiting-out problem by eliminating per-country limits, and applying only the global limits in visa categories; it's the per-country limits that create the really absurd wait times.) Simple: if you want to accommodate more employment-based immigrants, increase employment-based immigrant visas rather than keeping an employment-based, mobility-limiting non-immigrant visa category around, but make it a possible immigration funnel because it allows dual intent.

ksajadi 5y ago

Once you have an H1B you’re exempt from the lottery draw which is the biggest deterrent for hiring in the first place. This makes switching employers very easy and therefore reduces the “employer lock-in”

908B64B197 5y ago

> "hire cheap labor from overseas" Many years ago we had to relocate engineers from Switzerland, France and Canada in the US after an acquisition. Most of them on H1s or O1s and it sure wasn't cheaper than US devs here in the valley. > only works as long that labor can't walk across the street for a raise. They absolutely can. It's a trivial filing for an immigration attorney.

SheinhardtWigCo 5y ago
Employer: Can we legally hire you? Applicant: You absolutely can! Employer: Great! Applicant: It's a trivial filing. Employer: Ugh, okay. Applicant: For an immigration attorney. Employer: click

rhuru 5y ago

Correct but then the anti immigration lobby hates the hires and not the employers so all the regulation to protect the worker invariably is aimed at harassing the worker. As soon as trump admin started my harassment I ahd to join faang to protect myself.