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That is certainly an important factor. I think it goes even deeper. China doesn't recognize human rights as we know them. The collective, represented by state

by kharak 4y ago

That is certainly an important factor. I think it goes even deeper. China doesn't recognize human rights as we know them. The collective, represented by state interests (CCP), is above all. Hence any individual right can be sacrificed for the greater good. Aka state interests. And that's why situations like this shutdown in Shanghai can unfold. It's a deeply philosophical problem that China hasn't resolved, despite ample opportunity to learn the lesson.

bllguo 4y ago
> It's a deeply philosophical problem that China hasn't resolved, despite ample opportunity to learn the lesson. What a bizarre statement. How can you simultaneously think it's a deep philosophical issue and also that there is an obvious solution?
- kharak 4y ago
  I didn’t say it was obvious? Even in the western world, it’s sometimes contested. Still, the consequences of having and not having human rights have been observed often enough by now. Including in Chinas (recent) history.
  - bllguo 4y ago
    Oh please, spare me. So what did "ample opportunity to learn the lesson" mean? "Observed often enough by now," we don't need to talk any specifics, _obviously_ Western ideals are superior! End of history and all that jazz, huh? I was hoping for more critical thought when you rightly mentioned this to be a "deeply philosophical problem."
    - rini17 4y ago
      I understood parent as: The unnecessary deaths count in China since the Great Leap is obvious and provides the learning opportunities. But sadly none are taken and death toll is ongoing. But hopefully someday learning and philosophy can take place as it did in the West after the war. If I read that right, what in there is so inflamatory to you?
      - kharak 4y ago
        You got me right. He seems to have a problem with the idea that the western world figured something out that China hasn’t (yet). Or the idea that different values cause different outcomes. Or the issue is that I’m not making much of an argument? Seemingly implying that my conclusion is obvious. In that case, I apologise for not going into more detail here.

by kharak 4y ago

bllguo 4y ago

> It's a deeply philosophical problem that China hasn't resolved, despite ample opportunity to learn the lesson. What a bizarre statement. How can you simultaneously think it's a deep philosophical issue and also that there is an obvious solution?

kharak 4y ago
I didn’t say it was obvious? Even in the western world, it’s sometimes contested. Still, the consequences of having and not having human rights have been observed often enough by now. Including in Chinas (recent) history.
- bllguo 4y ago
  Oh please, spare me. So what did "ample opportunity to learn the lesson" mean? "Observed often enough by now," we don't need to talk any specifics, _obviously_ Western ideals are superior! End of history and all that jazz, huh? I was hoping for more critical thought when you rightly mentioned this to be a "deeply philosophical problem."
  - rini17 4y ago
    I understood parent as: The unnecessary deaths count in China since the Great Leap is obvious and provides the learning opportunities. But sadly none are taken and death toll is ongoing. But hopefully someday learning and philosophy can take place as it did in the West after the war. If I read that right, what in there is so inflamatory to you?
    - kharak 4y ago
      You got me right. He seems to have a problem with the idea that the western world figured something out that China hasn’t (yet). Or the idea that different values cause different outcomes. Or the issue is that I’m not making much of an argument? Seemingly implying that my conclusion is obvious. In that case, I apologise for not going into more detail here.