4 ms·

Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? You'll still need a vehicle carrying heavy weapons to take out bunkers, enemy vehicles, etc. Maybe you can have an ATG

Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? You'll still need a vehicle carrying heavy weapons to take out bunkers, enemy vehicles, etc. Maybe you can have an ATGM carrier with a bunch of missiles. But missiles are expensive, so maybe if you fit a specialized fire control system to a gun you can get the same accuracy as a missile but cheaper. That's going to be heavy, so you'll probably want tracks to spread the weight[0]. Then you'll want to protect your big and heavy vehicle too so it can't be killed by say someone with a common RPG-7. And now what do you have? A tank. Certainly things are going to change in the future. Active protection systems (APSs) are going to be basically required, and I wouldn't be surprised if APSs became the main armor. After WWII the effectiveness of HEAT made designers believe armor was ineffective, so many post-war designs sacrificed armor for speed, such as the Leopard 1, so something similar could happen again. But an important part of the equation is tactics. A very similar question to "why do we still need MBTs" is "why do we still need infantry" and the answer is the same: they synergise[1]. Infantry need tanks to blow up hard points, and tanks need infantry to keep an eye on the surroundings, suppress and occupy potential firing points, take buildings to prevent them from being used to fire ATGMs and to use to look out for enemy ATGMs, etc. Infantry itself doesn't do anything to reduce the threat of missiles, but infantry-tank coordination tactics do. [0] For example, the Stryker MGS is a wheeled vehicle carrying a gun. It's widely regarded to suck badly, but in principle there's no reason you couldn't have a good wheeled gun carrier. [1] Also you need infantry to go places tanks can't go and root out defenders, plus actually do the work of holding enemy territory like talking to local leaders, clearing the radio station of hostile DJs, etc

sorokod 5y ago
> Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? Don't know, but that is a different question. BTW some/many of the MBT in this war are already equipped with active protection systems e.g Shtora ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtora-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtora-1 ). See the T-80 and T-90 sections here: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum...
- greedo 5y ago
  Shtora is really not an APS. It's more of a countermeasure system designed to fool the laser guidance used by missiles etc. Think of it like ECM for a tank. APS is more along the lines of Trophy (Israeli and eventually US), or Drozd/Arena (RU) where radar senses projectiles, and fires counter projectiles at the incoming round/missile. Drozd was never really implemented; partially due to cost, but also because it tended to kill any infantry accompanying the tanks. Arena appears to be much of the same tech, focused on RPG type weapons as well as ATGMs. I think the reason we don't see much of it on the Russian tanks is again, cost. The export version was pitched to South Korea at $300k per unit. And compared to the cost of a T-72B3, that's a significant amount to add. Or it could be the typical Russian military corruption we've been seeing in Ukraine.
  - sorokod 5y ago
    I think you are confusing APS systems in general (of which Shtora is one) and the subset of APS systems that are hard-kill such as Trophy. Of course regardless of efficiency, an APS system has to be installed in the first place and it is possible that that is not the common case in Ukraine.
    - greedo 5y ago
      APS generally refers to hard-kill systems like Trophy/Arena. Things that actively go kill the missile or projectile coming towards the fighting vehicle. Shtora is not active, it simply disrupts the laser guidance (if it can detect the beam in time). It's no different than an ECM jammer on a fighter or surface ship.
rectang 5y ago
> Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? For taking out hard targets: precision artillery firing guided munitions from further behind the front lines, with minimal armor but protected by APS, and highly mobile to shoot and scoot?
YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago
>> Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? Powered armour?

sorokod 5y ago

> Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? Don't know, but that is a different question. BTW some/many of the MBT in this war are already equipped with active protection systems e.g Shtora ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtora-1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shtora-1 ). See the T-80 and T-90 sections here: https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-docum...

greedo 5y ago
Shtora is really not an APS. It's more of a countermeasure system designed to fool the laser guidance used by missiles etc. Think of it like ECM for a tank. APS is more along the lines of Trophy (Israeli and eventually US), or Drozd/Arena (RU) where radar senses projectiles, and fires counter projectiles at the incoming round/missile. Drozd was never really implemented; partially due to cost, but also because it tended to kill any infantry accompanying the tanks. Arena appears to be much of the same tech, focused on RPG type weapons as well as ATGMs. I think the reason we don't see much of it on the Russian tanks is again, cost. The export version was pitched to South Korea at $300k per unit. And compared to the cost of a T-72B3, that's a significant amount to add. Or it could be the typical Russian military corruption we've been seeing in Ukraine.
- sorokod 5y ago
  I think you are confusing APS systems in general (of which Shtora is one) and the subset of APS systems that are hard-kill such as Trophy. Of course regardless of efficiency, an APS system has to be installed in the first place and it is possible that that is not the common case in Ukraine.
  - greedo 5y ago
    APS generally refers to hard-kill systems like Trophy/Arena. Things that actively go kill the missile or projectile coming towards the fighting vehicle. Shtora is not active, it simply disrupts the laser guidance (if it can detect the beam in time). It's no different than an ECM jammer on a fighter or surface ship.

rectang 5y ago

> Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? For taking out hard targets: precision artillery firing guided munitions from further behind the front lines, with minimal armor but protected by APS, and highly mobile to shoot and scoot?

YeGoblynQueenne 5y ago

>> Well, what would an MBT be replaced with? Powered armour?