3 ms·
I'll address some of your point to explain at least some of the Right's departure from Democracy. Most left-leaners seem at a loss to understand it, so although
by quacked 5y ago
I'll address some of your point to explain at least some of the Right's departure from Democracy. Most left-leaners seem at a loss to understand it, so although I expect I'll be downvoted to hell, I may be able to add some context to what seems like an impenetrable problem.
I vehemently dislike the GOP; however, I dislike the American left to an even greater degree, and what I disagree with the American left most over is the issue of immigration, which is central to the issue of Democracy. In speaking to left-leaners, I always find that they support increasing immigration. Some say that they'd be fine with millions more every year; some say that they think there should be billions of Americans; some think that borders should be removed entirely.
Immigrants moving to a new country are primarily concerned with their own way of life, and the way of life of that of their compatriots. I know and speak to many immigrants, and their primary questions are: (1) how can I make more money so I can send it to my family; (2) how can I get my family over here? These are often intelligent, creative, brilliant people--humans, all--but their allegiance to their families and their culture is much higher than their allegiance to "Ameria", whatever that means. For many of them, the U.S. exists as an economic zone for them, not as a nation. What to me is an eye-offending megastore and parking complex laid across a prior wetland is to them a safe, predictable, policed place to acquire goods and services. What to me is a tyrannical surveillance practice is to them a connection to the police that could never be trusted in their home country. They will vote to protect these conveniences over any esoteric desires about my own country and culture that I have. Furthermore, in the cases of overtly left-leaning immigrants, I find that they actively dislike me--they mock the food I like, the music I like, the history I'm proud of, etc.
Now, there are usually between 200,000 and 1M new immigrants added to the country every year, worsening the already nasty housing problem. So, now, I ask myself: how to deal with this social and political issue? How can I make my voice heard?
The answer in the US is Democracy, the One Moral Form of Government, the Bringer of Human Rights to the World. In the US, this means that myself and a proportionally dwindling set of conservatives (who are often even worse than the immigrants whose viewpoints I disagree with) will set our votes against a constantly-expanding group of left-leaners and brand new immigrants, each of whom will be emboldened to participate in Democracy, inevitably tilting the balance of control further and further left. This will happen in business as well as in politics; as an exmaple, land and institutions are increasingly captured by Chinese investors (farmland, manufacturing, real estate, etc.), and the legislatures continue to allow it to happen.
So--I am now not so interested in Democracy as I was when I was a child; now I am more interested in Power, who owns it, and how they're going to get it. What is the point of voting if your political opponents will ally with all of the other subcultures in your pluralistic Democracy, vote against you, and permanently change your country into something you don't like?
(To head off the normal comments: no, I do not think that "conservatives" are "oppressed"; no, I did not vote for Trump; no, I don't think the Capitol invasion was smart and I think the Capitol Police would have been justified in using more live ammunition than they did; yes, I understand that my ancestors were immigrants, it may have been a better idea to stay in the Old Country; yes, I agree that many immigrants are smarter, more ethical, and more virtuous than "classical" Americans; and yes, I agree that Native Americans are logically correct to be upset about my continued occupancy of the land their ancestors lived on.)
- themitigating 5y agoIf people have more children and teach them their views isn't that the same thing? Why is it so important that you were born in a country and isn't a large part of the success of the US related to immigrants who bought their talent, culture, and new ideas here?
- ant_li0n 5y agoInteresting. I think it might be a matter of what "leftists" you hang around with/are exposed to, and just possibly how much time you spend on Twitter (a personal bugbear of mine). Most of my friends consider themselves pretty far on the left, and I don't think any of us have the attitudes about immigration that you're discussing. I think in general our appraisal of the situation is, "It's way more complicated than you think." Reductionist solutions like "Build a wall" or "Remove all borders" are, well, just dumb. When we talk about the flood of immigrants to our borders, the question frequently turns to root causes. Looking at immigration from Latin America specifically, we have a long history of exploitation and extraction of wealth and resources from those countries. Just like we built our country of slavery, we have done (and are continuing to do) similar levels of exploitation below our southern borders. So when you think of things from that point of view, the range of possible solutions does not usually include "remove our borders" (seriously I've never heard anybody advocate that. If you have, I wonder if it was on Twitter?). It's more like, "corporations who do this kind of thing ought to be heavily taxed, or else prove that they are improving the lives of people in their home countries", etc. So, as a sort of tl;dr - the leftists I know don't advocate massively increased immigration. We are in favor of treating people humanely, and increasing regulation and taxation on corporations that benefit from keeping places unstable and generally undesirable places to live.
- neilk 5y agoThanks for being honest. I find your comments fascinating. You mention, in passing, how immigrants are making the country worse because they are left-leaning. The left-leaning behaviors you mention are a disregard for the environment (?), being concerned with one’s own family and fortunes (??) and mocking traditional American foods (???). Even if these things are happening but what does this have to do with being left-wing? The myopic mall-goers sound more like suburban GOP types. And who is mocking hamburgers and meatloaf? That sounds like a white college student to me. Lastly - I think it’s a dubious proposition that America single-handedly brought democracy to the world, but there’s no question that it was an important step in human political evolution. But that’s because the USA is uniquely blind to ethnicity, religion, and origin, defining government as the guardian of everyone’s liberty. Probably everything you cherish as all-American is a direct result of that attitude, including hamburgers and meatloaf. America, so far, has been really good at turning newcomers into Americans - or turning America into someplace that values what the newcomers brought. Why are you losing faith in this now?