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I'm not sure why you keep focusing on Patanjali, who I'll concede is beyond caring about this. But the people from his culture and civilization who ARE alive to

by rajup 5y ago

I'm not sure why you keep focusing on Patanjali, who I'll concede is beyond caring about this. But the people from his culture and civilization who ARE alive today do not want to see his works (some who consider it sacred) associated with "beer" or "goats" or commercialized without proper credit and respect, and it is important to them. I'm not sure why that reason is not good enough for you? Are you the kind of person who goes trespassing in sacred native lands in Hawaii or anywhere else, because after all the elders are all dead?

brigandish 5y ago
I’m not the kind of person who engages in cheap ad hominem with someone they’re in discussion with, that’s what I do know. > I'm not sure why you keep focusing on PatanjalI He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad hominem. > But the people from his culture and civilization who ARE alive today do not want to see his works (some who consider it sacred) associated with "beer" or "goats" or commercialized without proper credit and respect, and it is important to them Why do they care more than Patanjali? Why does being Indian matter when yoga is implicitly non-national? Nationalism, a disease which India currently appears riddled with, is a specious line of reasoning. Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? Ridiculous. They’re an idea anyway, even if they were “invented” today they couldn’t be copyrighted. This whole line of argument is absurd, and I might be in a better mood to entertain them if you cut out the ad hominem, but I doubt it.
- rajup 5y ago
  > Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? I believe so yes. Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice but I assure you many many people in india practice it. > He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad hominem. I don’t think I ever mentioned plagiarism, you probably have me confused with someone else. > Why do they care more than Patanjali? Why does being Indian matter when yoga is implicitly non-national? Nationalism, a disease which India currently appears riddled with, is a specious line of reasoning. The fact that you’re even asking this question tells me more about your unchecked privilege than anything else. And re nationalism: no thanks we don’t need outsiders telling us what we should be thinking, we had 2 centuries of that, don’t care for it much. > This whole line of argument is absurd, and I might be in a better mood to entertain them if you cut out the ad hominem, but I doubt it. Sounds good, I wish you well.
  - brigandish 5y ago
    > > Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? > I believe so yes. Should I wait for some reasoning to back that up or do I have to ask? If I ask will I get an answer? > Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice People who practice it versus people who don't, like the average Indian. > but I assure you many many people in india practice it. Many people who are not Indian practise yoga - why does the average Indian have more claim to it than these people? Would Patanjali think they do? > I don’t think I ever mentioned plagiarism, you probably have me confused with someone else. This is the thread you're on[1], do you have it confused with another? > The fact that you’re even asking this question tells me more about your unchecked privilege than anything else. Again, no answer, just ad hominem. Why do they care more than Patanjali? > And re nationalism: no thanks we don’t need outsiders telling us what we should be thinking, we had 2 centuries of that, don’t care for it much. Poe's Law comes to mind. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31036720 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31036720
    - rajup 5y ago
      This will be my last response since I'm finding it increasingly hard to believe you're arguing in good faith. > Should I wait for some reasoning to back that up or do I have to ask? If I ask will I get an answer? The Yogic practices originated in the Indian subcontinent, so yes the people who identify themselves with the same civilization and culture as the person(s) who originated these practices do have a larger claim as to how these practices are presented, taught and understood. It would seem that your claim that such a notion is "ridiculous" is on much more shakier ground than mine. I don't see you presenting any reasoning as to why you believe this is "ridiculous". You certainly feel so, but there's nothing special or important about your feelings on the matter. > People who practice it versus people who don't, like the average Indian. Not sure what relevance this has to the matter, but ok thanks for the clarification. > Many people who are not Indian practise yoga - why does the average Indian have more claim to it than these people? Would Patanjali think they do? See above. > Again, no answer, just ad hominem. No ad hominem, just an observation. I keep saying that there are people who sometimes dislike the co-opting and whitewashing/rebranding of Yoga (see the linked article). You keep insisting that it's not a problem and that I should just not care. It's again hard to attribute good intent here. BTW on the topic of ad hominem, you're the one who seemed close to accusing me of rabid "nationalism", perhaps not those exact words but you and I both know exactly what you mean. > Why do they care more than Patanjali? Why not? > Poe's Law comes to mind. Randomly throwing the names of rhetorical devices or "laws" in a conversation does not make your argument any stronger FYI.

by rajup 5y ago

brigandish 5y ago

I’m not the kind of person who engages in cheap ad hominem with someone they’re in discussion with, that’s what I do know. > I'm not sure why you keep focusing on PatanjalI He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad hominem. > But the people from his culture and civilization who ARE alive today do not want to see his works (some who consider it sacred) associated with "beer" or "goats" or commercialized without proper credit and respect, and it is important to them Why do they care more than Patanjali? Why does being Indian matter when yoga is implicitly non-national? Nationalism, a disease which India currently appears riddled with, is a specious line of reasoning. Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? Ridiculous. They’re an idea anyway, even if they were “invented” today they couldn’t be copyrighted. This whole line of argument is absurd, and I might be in a better mood to entertain them if you cut out the ad hominem, but I doubt it.

rajup 5y ago
> Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? I believe so yes. Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice but I assure you many many people in india practice it. > He’s the one whose techniques are (allegedly) being plagiarised, it’s abundantly clear to anyone who’s not busy trying to avoid the central point and instead engaging in ad hominem. I don’t think I ever mentioned plagiarism, you probably have me confused with someone else. > Why do they care more than Patanjali? Why does being Indian matter when yoga is implicitly non-national? Nationalism, a disease which India currently appears riddled with, is a specious line of reasoning. The fact that you’re even asking this question tells me more about your unchecked privilege than anything else. And re nationalism: no thanks we don’t need outsiders telling us what we should be thinking, we had 2 centuries of that, don’t care for it much. > This whole line of argument is absurd, and I might be in a better mood to entertain them if you cut out the ad hominem, but I doubt it. Sounds good, I wish you well.
- brigandish 5y ago
  > > Does the average Indian get more claim over yogic techniques than those of other nationalities who actually practice them? > I believe so yes. Should I wait for some reasoning to back that up or do I have to ask? If I ask will I get an answer? > Not sure what you mean by “actually” practice People who practice it versus people who don't, like the average Indian. > but I assure you many many people in india practice it. Many people who are not Indian practise yoga - why does the average Indian have more claim to it than these people? Would Patanjali think they do? > I don’t think I ever mentioned plagiarism, you probably have me confused with someone else. This is the thread you're on[1], do you have it confused with another? > The fact that you’re even asking this question tells me more about your unchecked privilege than anything else. Again, no answer, just ad hominem. Why do they care more than Patanjali? > And re nationalism: no thanks we don’t need outsiders telling us what we should be thinking, we had 2 centuries of that, don’t care for it much. Poe's Law comes to mind. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31036720 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31036720
  - rajup 5y ago
    This will be my last response since I'm finding it increasingly hard to believe you're arguing in good faith. > Should I wait for some reasoning to back that up or do I have to ask? If I ask will I get an answer? The Yogic practices originated in the Indian subcontinent, so yes the people who identify themselves with the same civilization and culture as the person(s) who originated these practices do have a larger claim as to how these practices are presented, taught and understood. It would seem that your claim that such a notion is "ridiculous" is on much more shakier ground than mine. I don't see you presenting any reasoning as to why you believe this is "ridiculous". You certainly feel so, but there's nothing special or important about your feelings on the matter. > People who practice it versus people who don't, like the average Indian. Not sure what relevance this has to the matter, but ok thanks for the clarification. > Many people who are not Indian practise yoga - why does the average Indian have more claim to it than these people? Would Patanjali think they do? See above. > Again, no answer, just ad hominem. No ad hominem, just an observation. I keep saying that there are people who sometimes dislike the co-opting and whitewashing/rebranding of Yoga (see the linked article). You keep insisting that it's not a problem and that I should just not care. It's again hard to attribute good intent here. BTW on the topic of ad hominem, you're the one who seemed close to accusing me of rabid "nationalism", perhaps not those exact words but you and I both know exactly what you mean. > Why do they care more than Patanjali? Why not? > Poe's Law comes to mind. Randomly throwing the names of rhetorical devices or "laws" in a conversation does not make your argument any stronger FYI.