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> History is full of groups opposed to technological progress. That is a disingenuous comment or you gravely misunderstand the issues. There are almost no gro

> History is full of groups opposed to technological progress. That is a disingenuous comment or you gravely misunderstand the issues. There are almost no groups ever in history "opposed to technological progress", even the "Luddites" that inevitably will get mention a dozen times in this thread. Nobody is opposed to technological progress. The opposition is to technological tyranny. I do hope you understand the difference between the two.

hervature 5y ago
> There are almost no groups ever in history "opposed to technological progress", even the "Luddites" I would agree that the Luddites were not opposed to all technological progress, just the part that impacted their jobs. But this type of reasoning leads to the tragedy of the commons where each group refuses technology that replaces themselves. The end result is no technological progress. Anyway, "technological tyranny" is poorly defined and people just pick whatever they deem wrong as tyranny and whatever is good as a non-issue. We are under rule of the internet. Without it, society would cease to function. Are people opposed to the internet tyranny? We require a functioning society to have advanced health care, regardless of socialism/capitalism, are we under "advanced health care tyranny" because it is being used to push people into a functioning society?
- ncmncm 5y ago
  They were not, in fact, opposed to progress that impacted their jobs. They were opposed to elimination of their agency. Very, very different. Destroying equipment was a tactic, not an ideology. The worst that can honestly be said about it is that it didn't work.
- nonrandomstring 5y ago
  You make some astute and fair comments but this one just jumped out at me as terrifyingly wrong > "We are under rule of the internet." Good Lord! No! If we are "under the rule" of anything it is the Rule of Law. In Britain, unlike USA, we are "subjects of Her Majesty", such that the Law is mediated through a parliamentary democracy. You have it slightly different under a republic. Either way, despite general cynicism we are lucky enough to enjoy governments that serve us, and long may that last. The internet is nothing but a tool. It damn well serves us. And it does so if and only if we ask it to. Your's is precisely the sort of expressions that gives me concern, please reconsider what you are saying.
  - hervature 5y ago
    I'm confused because you are the one who said that they were opposed to technological tyranny. Like, somehow how factories were controlling their lives/agency as another commenter puts it. I am the one that is saying that technology is but a tool (which we agree?). I was just extending this nebulous definition of "technology running our lives" to mean "technological tyranny" which I prefaced was ill-defined and took it to its absurd logical limit that we were being "controlled" by other technologies.
- nonrandomstring 5y ago
  In response to your deeper comment. > I'm confused because you are the one who said that they were opposed to technological tyranny. Yes, sorry if my lazy parsing (overzealous response) means we're talking at cross purposes. I think we are more in agreement than not. If there's anything we are confusing each other over it may be "what already is" versus "what we want to avoid". respects

hervature 5y ago

> There are almost no groups ever in history "opposed to technological progress", even the "Luddites" I would agree that the Luddites were not opposed to all technological progress, just the part that impacted their jobs. But this type of reasoning leads to the tragedy of the commons where each group refuses technology that replaces themselves. The end result is no technological progress. Anyway, "technological tyranny" is poorly defined and people just pick whatever they deem wrong as tyranny and whatever is good as a non-issue. We are under rule of the internet. Without it, society would cease to function. Are people opposed to the internet tyranny? We require a functioning society to have advanced health care, regardless of socialism/capitalism, are we under "advanced health care tyranny" because it is being used to push people into a functioning society?

ncmncm 5y ago
They were not, in fact, opposed to progress that impacted their jobs. They were opposed to elimination of their agency. Very, very different. Destroying equipment was a tactic, not an ideology. The worst that can honestly be said about it is that it didn't work.
nonrandomstring 5y ago
You make some astute and fair comments but this one just jumped out at me as terrifyingly wrong > "We are under rule of the internet." Good Lord! No! If we are "under the rule" of anything it is the Rule of Law. In Britain, unlike USA, we are "subjects of Her Majesty", such that the Law is mediated through a parliamentary democracy. You have it slightly different under a republic. Either way, despite general cynicism we are lucky enough to enjoy governments that serve us, and long may that last. The internet is nothing but a tool. It damn well serves us. And it does so if and only if we ask it to. Your's is precisely the sort of expressions that gives me concern, please reconsider what you are saying.
- hervature 5y ago
  I'm confused because you are the one who said that they were opposed to technological tyranny. Like, somehow how factories were controlling their lives/agency as another commenter puts it. I am the one that is saying that technology is but a tool (which we agree?). I was just extending this nebulous definition of "technology running our lives" to mean "technological tyranny" which I prefaced was ill-defined and took it to its absurd logical limit that we were being "controlled" by other technologies.
nonrandomstring 5y ago
In response to your deeper comment. > I'm confused because you are the one who said that they were opposed to technological tyranny. Yes, sorry if my lazy parsing (overzealous response) means we're talking at cross purposes. I think we are more in agreement than not. If there's anything we are confusing each other over it may be "what already is" versus "what we want to avoid". respects