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Patently obvious? I think there are multiple plausible explanations. Building things people want gives credibility. I find it more bizarre people have such pas

by adh636 4y ago

Patently obvious? I think there are multiple plausible explanations. Building things people want gives credibility. I find it more bizarre people have such passionate anger towards others.

browserman 4y ago
I don't have 'anger' towards him, although I certainly have an opinion about whether he is trustworthy or genuinely civic-minded, as I do about many other incredibly powerful political-business operators who collectively set the terms of public life. Of course, I'm also baffled that people credit him as being a 'builder' rather than an extremely successful marketer and financial engineer, especially at the expense of all the people who, you know, actually do the building...
- rio517 4y ago
  You think he didn't build anything? He wrote the code for his first startup and is the Chief designer at SpaceX. Listen to some of his interviews, especially by everyday astronaut. He is indeed the Chief Deigner. I don't think he is a good marketer - he is more middle of the road. I think people say that to discredit him. Have you watched any of his full length presentations. He is terrible. What he is good at is having a vision he believes in. He sells that well.
- Veedrac 4y ago
  Musk is an engineer. That is just a fact about him. There are repeated comments to this effect from people who have worked with him, including famously well regarded engineers. If you watch his 3-part Starbase tour with Everyday Astronaut it is incredibly obvious. Some quotes to this effect, though certainly not all, have been collated at [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
  - morelisp 4y ago
    Do you think engineers are fundamentally/inherently "trustworthy or genuinely civic-minded"? If not, how does this concern browserman's point?
    - Veedrac 4y ago
      I was addressing the second paragraph, not the first.
      - morelisp 4y ago
        The word "engineer" does not appear in browserman's post except to say Musk is one, and "builder" is not a synonym of "engineer".
        Veedrac 4y ago
        Now this is just playing semantic games. Nobody has ever claimed Musk is building Tesla's cars or SpaceX's rockets by hand. Obviously those are built by the factories and the people employed their for that purpose. There is no way browserman's point was legitimately something not contradicted by the quotes I linked. > “He’s not afraid to get his hands dirty,” Mueller said. “He’s out there with his nice Italian shoes and clothes and has epoxy all over him. They were there all night and tested it again and it broke anyway.”
- zionic 4y ago
  >Of course, I'm also baffled that people credit him as being a 'builder' I'm on the other hand baffled that so many here are willing to spout off opinions like this without even so much as having listened to the man talk. He is _clearly_ an engineer's engineer. This topic really highlights the people who form their entire mental model of reality around news headlines.
  - browserman 4y ago
    I agree that he is great at talking.
chx 4y ago
> Building things people want gives credibility. nope, it generates hype. That's all there is. Up until very very recently they were losing money on every car they made and only a pandemic killing enough factory workers worldwide to create shortages have they managed to break even. What Tesla made money on is regulatory credits. A year ago https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36266673/teslas-q1-2021-earnings-call-questions/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36266673/teslas-q1-2021-e... > The company had an income of $438 million, including a $101 million "positive impact" from the sale of Bitcoin, and $518 million from selling zero-emission regulatory credits to other automakers. That means Tesla continues to lose money making and selling vehicles. The Boring Tunnel Company barely have built anything and what they did build is a deathtrap. Hyperloop is completely impossible. SpaceX's Starlink satellites are involved in about 1,600 close encounters between two spacecraft every week, ~50 % of all such. Also, Elon Musk already committed a federal felony as a twitter user and it is beyond bizarre he is a) not in jail b) allowed to bid on it.
- _-david-_ 4y ago
  >Also, Elon Musk already committed a federal felony as a twitter user Surely he is innocent until found guilty. Just because you think he committed a crime doesn't mean he actually did.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    You think he would've settled for $40mil and heightened personal scrutiny if he was innocent?
    - hersko 4y ago
      He talks about this in the latest TED talk. Supposedly banks were refusing to give Tesla loans unless he settled with the SEC
      - forty 4y ago
        It's very surpring that he wouldn't admit being guilty and would find excuses instead :)

by adh636 4y ago

Patently obvious? I think there are multiple plausible explanations. Building things people want gives credibility. I find it more bizarre people have such passionate anger towards others.

browserman 4y ago

I don't have 'anger' towards him, although I certainly have an opinion about whether he is trustworthy or genuinely civic-minded, as I do about many other incredibly powerful political-business operators who collectively set the terms of public life. Of course, I'm also baffled that people credit him as being a 'builder' rather than an extremely successful marketer and financial engineer, especially at the expense of all the people who, you know, actually do the building...

rio517 4y ago
You think he didn't build anything? He wrote the code for his first startup and is the Chief designer at SpaceX. Listen to some of his interviews, especially by everyday astronaut. He is indeed the Chief Deigner. I don't think he is a good marketer - he is more middle of the road. I think people say that to discredit him. Have you watched any of his full length presentations. He is terrible. What he is good at is having a vision he believes in. He sells that well.
Veedrac 4y ago
Musk is an engineer. That is just a fact about him. There are repeated comments to this effect from people who have worked with him, including famously well regarded engineers. If you watch his 3-part Starbase tour with Everyday Astronaut it is incredibly obvious. Some quotes to this effect, though certainly not all, have been collated at [1]. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/evidence_that_musk_is_the_chief_engineer_of_spacex/ https://www.reddit.com/r/SpaceXLounge/comments/k1e0ta/eviden...
- morelisp 4y ago
  Do you think engineers are fundamentally/inherently "trustworthy or genuinely civic-minded"? If not, how does this concern browserman's point?
  - Veedrac 4y ago
    I was addressing the second paragraph, not the first.
    - morelisp 4y ago
      The word "engineer" does not appear in browserman's post except to say Musk is one, and "builder" is not a synonym of "engineer".
      - Veedrac 4y ago
        Now this is just playing semantic games. Nobody has ever claimed Musk is building Tesla's cars or SpaceX's rockets by hand. Obviously those are built by the factories and the people employed their for that purpose. There is no way browserman's point was legitimately something not contradicted by the quotes I linked. > “He’s not afraid to get his hands dirty,” Mueller said. “He’s out there with his nice Italian shoes and clothes and has epoxy all over him. They were there all night and tested it again and it broke anyway.”
zionic 4y ago
>Of course, I'm also baffled that people credit him as being a 'builder' I'm on the other hand baffled that so many here are willing to spout off opinions like this without even so much as having listened to the man talk. He is _clearly_ an engineer's engineer. This topic really highlights the people who form their entire mental model of reality around news headlines.
- browserman 4y ago
  I agree that he is great at talking.

chx 4y ago

> Building things people want gives credibility. nope, it generates hype. That's all there is. Up until very very recently they were losing money on every car they made and only a pandemic killing enough factory workers worldwide to create shortages have they managed to break even. What Tesla made money on is regulatory credits. A year ago https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36266673/teslas-q1-2021-earnings-call-questions/ https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a36266673/teslas-q1-2021-e... > The company had an income of $438 million, including a $101 million "positive impact" from the sale of Bitcoin, and $518 million from selling zero-emission regulatory credits to other automakers. That means Tesla continues to lose money making and selling vehicles. The Boring Tunnel Company barely have built anything and what they did build is a deathtrap. Hyperloop is completely impossible. SpaceX's Starlink satellites are involved in about 1,600 close encounters between two spacecraft every week, ~50 % of all such. Also, Elon Musk already committed a federal felony as a twitter user and it is beyond bizarre he is a) not in jail b) allowed to bid on it.

_-david-_ 4y ago
>Also, Elon Musk already committed a federal felony as a twitter user Surely he is innocent until found guilty. Just because you think he committed a crime doesn't mean he actually did.
- morelisp 4y ago
  You think he would've settled for $40mil and heightened personal scrutiny if he was innocent?
  - hersko 4y ago
    He talks about this in the latest TED talk. Supposedly banks were refusing to give Tesla loans unless he settled with the SEC
    - forty 4y ago
      It's very surpring that he wouldn't admit being guilty and would find excuses instead :)