4 ms·

Those aren't javelin cages, they're called "cope cages"[1], because they're just a psychological coping mechanism for the troops inside, but offer no protection

Those aren't javelin cages, they're called "cope cages"[1], because they're just a psychological coping mechanism for the troops inside, but offer no protection against modern smart munitions like NLAW or Javelin. They're a relic since Russia's war in Chechnya where those cages could protect against ancient RPGs fired from buildings in narrow city streets. [1] https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/324/004/043.png https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/002/324/004/043...

dragontamer 5y ago
> They're a relic since Russia's war in Chechnya where those cages could protect against RPGs fired from buildings in narrow city streets. USA sent IIRC 3x as many "dumb" RPGs (the AT4) as Javelins, assuming that the Ukrainians would be fighting in narrow city streets. Turned out that urban warfare didn't really happen much. But... I think everyone's plan was for urban combat, and then everybody turned out to be wrong. On the USA side, not a big deal, we sent the wrong mix of weapons but we're fixing that with lend-lease / additional aid packages.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  Dumb RPGs are still very useful. Not every target is an armoured tank. An old RPG aimed at a fuel truck is very effective.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    It's more of a range thing. Hitting an enemy fuel truck from 5000m away is a lot safer than running up and shooting it at 200m. 200m shots are common in a city, because cover / concealment is everywhere. Sure, there are still trees and hills to hide in the countryside, but having the option for super long range really helps.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Turned out that urban warfare didn't really happen much The war isn't really past tense; the swift advance to and battle for Kyiv with the intent of forcing capitulation didn't happen, but as the shift to seizing territory Russia really wants rather than getting handed it by a friendly government imposed on Ukraine has happened, urban warfare has become a thing in Mariupol, and if Russia continues prosecuting the war it’ll probably happen more places.
- chipsa 5y ago
  The slat armor is also only effective against the RPG-7 type warheads, where the fuse is in the nose and crushing the side of the warhead keeps the electric detonation signal from getting to the detonator. Other warheads will detonate when they hit the slat armor. With the net result of improved standoff distance. Most warheads don't incorporate enough stand off because it's hard to do so. The extra standoff actually improves penetration. That said, the AT4 is perfectly usable for side shots, such as in an ambush.
- abra0 5y ago
  >Turned out that urban warfare didn't really happen much. Siege of Mariupol is ongoing since the start of the war. It has seen very brutal urban fighting.
bee_rider 5y ago
Perhaps it is pedantic, but in case someone reads your comment and doesn't click on the image, the name "cope cage" is a meme based around making fun of them. I think these things don't have convenient a real name because they are improvised. "Improvised top attack armor" or something like that is probably what a journalist would call them. And they probably won't get a real name because they apparently they basically suck.
- jjoonathan 5y ago
  Sounds like a long way of saying they are cope cages :)
trhway 5y ago
>They're a relic since Russia's war in Chechnya where those cages could protect against ancient RPGs fired from buildings in narrow city streets. Actually even in 1945 facing Panzerfausts in European cities Soviet tankists tried to similarly bolt/weld onto the top of the turret the spring metal bed frames. It didn't work well if any. While at the same time it showed the precise position of the tank while in bushes, far in the field/etc. Ukrainians have been joking about those "chicken coops" showing the tank position as another sign of a Russian fail and lack of thinking through in this war.

dragontamer 5y ago

> They're a relic since Russia's war in Chechnya where those cages could protect against RPGs fired from buildings in narrow city streets. USA sent IIRC 3x as many "dumb" RPGs (the AT4) as Javelins, assuming that the Ukrainians would be fighting in narrow city streets. Turned out that urban warfare didn't really happen much. But... I think everyone's plan was for urban combat, and then everybody turned out to be wrong. On the USA side, not a big deal, we sent the wrong mix of weapons but we're fixing that with lend-lease / additional aid packages.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
ChuckNorris89 5y ago
Dumb RPGs are still very useful. Not every target is an armoured tank. An old RPG aimed at a fuel truck is very effective.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  It's more of a range thing. Hitting an enemy fuel truck from 5000m away is a lot safer than running up and shooting it at 200m. 200m shots are common in a city, because cover / concealment is everywhere. Sure, there are still trees and hills to hide in the countryside, but having the option for super long range really helps.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Turned out that urban warfare didn't really happen much The war isn't really past tense; the swift advance to and battle for Kyiv with the intent of forcing capitulation didn't happen, but as the shift to seizing territory Russia really wants rather than getting handed it by a friendly government imposed on Ukraine has happened, urban warfare has become a thing in Mariupol, and if Russia continues prosecuting the war it’ll probably happen more places.
chipsa 5y ago
The slat armor is also only effective against the RPG-7 type warheads, where the fuse is in the nose and crushing the side of the warhead keeps the electric detonation signal from getting to the detonator. Other warheads will detonate when they hit the slat armor. With the net result of improved standoff distance. Most warheads don't incorporate enough stand off because it's hard to do so. The extra standoff actually improves penetration. That said, the AT4 is perfectly usable for side shots, such as in an ambush.
abra0 5y ago
>Turned out that urban warfare didn't really happen much. Siege of Mariupol is ongoing since the start of the war. It has seen very brutal urban fighting.

bee_rider 5y ago

Perhaps it is pedantic, but in case someone reads your comment and doesn't click on the image, the name "cope cage" is a meme based around making fun of them. I think these things don't have convenient a real name because they are improvised. "Improvised top attack armor" or something like that is probably what a journalist would call them. And they probably won't get a real name because they apparently they basically suck.

jjoonathan 5y ago
Sounds like a long way of saying they are cope cages :)

trhway 5y ago

>They're a relic since Russia's war in Chechnya where those cages could protect against ancient RPGs fired from buildings in narrow city streets. Actually even in 1945 facing Panzerfausts in European cities Soviet tankists tried to similarly bolt/weld onto the top of the turret the spring metal bed frames. It didn't work well if any. While at the same time it showed the precise position of the tank while in bushes, far in the field/etc. Ukrainians have been joking about those "chicken coops" showing the tank position as another sign of a Russian fail and lack of thinking through in this war.