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Misogyny! But seriously. This is common behavior among competitive animals. Male Lions have to seek out a new pride. Don’t even begin to talk about birds who
by eric4smith 4y ago
Misogyny!
But seriously. This is common behavior among competitive animals.
Male Lions have to seek out a new pride.
Don’t even begin to talk about birds who the male or the species need to do all kinds of expensive preening.
Male Monkeys commonly get thrown out of the troop.
Males (including human males) generally have a completely and substantially different life than females.
That’s why I laugh at the common modern trope that we are the same.
Animals are just more honest about it.
- CincinnatiMan 4y agoI’m not seeing how this relates to why fossils would more often be males. Can you expand?
- murbard2 4y ago> “They were more likely to do silly things, like die in tar pits,” Gower says.
- dsq 4y agoNature creates superfluous number of males (since one male ususally has most of females, like in a pride of lions, or a sultan's harem). Therefore those unattached males, who are still too young and inexperienced to fight the old ones, wander around 'seeking their fortune', usually leading to their quick demise in all sorts of places.
- danaris 4y ago...Why does it matter whether the demise was quick or slow, with the group or apart from it? They still leave the same number of bones, don't they?
- cninja 4y agoThe environmental conditions that are good for the formation of fossils are not the sort of conditions that are good for living a long and peaceful life. Outcast males are the ones more likely to be wandering around in those sorts of places.
- rapind 4y agoI would imagine because the male bones would then be more scattered, whereas female bones more concentrated, giving you a better chance to come upon a male's bones. Not sure the speed of demise is relevant. If my kids scatter toys all of the living room, I'm much more likely to step on one or more of them, then if they were in a neat pile (speaking from experience).
- PeterisP 4y agoThat does not seem a reasonable exploration - all it means that we'd find female bones more rarely but when we do find them, there would be a whole cluster of them, recovering many specimens at once - it's not like paleontologists stop with "ah, we took one set of bones from here, we'll leave the rest lying around); so the total amount should still be the same.
- rapind 4y agoFair enough. Could be the size of the area, lack of resources, and bad luck until suddenly a jackpot? For all I know, maybe the bones at camp are used to make soup… /shrug
- jmopp 4y agoAn animal dying suddenly in a landslide would be more likely to leave a fossil than one who has been killed and eaten.
- Sharlin 4y agoFossilization is really rare and the conditions that enable fossilization usually involve being quickly buried under something.
- gumby 4y ago> Nature creates superfluous number of males A rather astounding statement. Selective pressure should result a ratio appropriate for a given species of plant or animal. It’s not my field, but I haven’t seen any literature suggesting any such thing, nor do I know of any country full of sultans.
- autosharp 4y agoE.g. most chickens (about 2/3) that come out of their egg are male. But a flock only allows maybe 1 adult male for every 5 females, with the surplus murdered by other chickens. So almost all male chickens are superfluous in that sense. It is still selective pressure which makes chickens have 'too many' males, because apparently those chickens/flocks have created more of themselves. Same for lions, btw, although I don't know about their sex' birthrates.
- rybosworld 4y agoBirth sex ratio of chickens is naturally 1:1. You can do weird things with temperature to affect those birth rates, but the ratio will not reach as high as 2:1 as far as I know.
- gumby 4y ago> Same for lions, btw, although I don't know about their sex' birthrates. If you don't know the rate how can you say it's true? By definition there is some sort of distribution of male/female cubs and there is presumably some sort of distribution of pack sizes. But apart from the victorian-inspired documentaries that talk about juvenile male ronins being chased from the pack I don't really know the dynamics, and I doubt anyone but a specialized community does. Where I live in Palo Alto the distribution of lone mountain lions that show up in town seems, anecdotally, to be predominantly female. Humans are a good example: slightly more males are born but within the range of about 20-50 years of age, the sex ratio is 1:1. Humans have been basically* monogamous throughout recorded history and for whatever reasons that might be it would select for this birth ratio wouldn't it. * Sure, there are plenty (well, a few percent) of kids whose father is not the male in a given hetero "couple" but it's the couple phenomenon itself that matters here.
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- ekabod 4y agowrong thread
- bantunes 4y agoTo suggest modern human life is governed by the same constraints as a troop of monkeys is ludicrous. Of course we're not the same, but to think we should leave it at that and never try to bridge the gap and fix injustices that might arise from it is weird.
- eric4smith 4y agoWe are governed by the same constraints. We just think we are above all animals in that respect. We are not. Of course no one wants injustices. Duh. But when in the name of curing injustices you deny the biological imperatives — a-la todays modern social justice warriors. This is when the problems and conflicts start.
- bantunes 4y agoPlease expand on one example of constraints that apply to troops of monkeys and modern day humans.
- eadmund 4y ago> Please expand on one example of constraints that apply to troops of monkeys and modern day humans. Both monkeys and humans require oxygen to breathe. That is, as you requested, one example of a constraint which applies to both. Perhaps you'd care to move the goalposts a bit?
- eric4smith 4y agoWhy? You’re not paying me to do so. Instead you would be looking to attack my examples. Instead go and google how monkey troupes operate and look at the analogies in human society. I did it, so surely you can too!
- bantunes 4y agoI see. Many thanks
- gunfighthacksaw 4y ago> That’s why I laugh at the common modern trope that we are the same. The ‘modern trope’ holds true in corporate environments, at least among the engineers, PMs and customer success agents I work with. Obviously your average man has higher bone density and muscle mass and inability to bear children, but this only really affects activities outside of the workplace. That said, aside from drinking more beer and working out more, my lifestyle is pretty much the same as my partner’s.
- rybosworld 4y agoDisagree. Males and females are different and it's important to talk about it. Male competitiveness plays a huge role in the corporate world, and is a reasonable explanation for why the top of the hierarchy is naturally dominated by males. Males and females are interested in different types of work. And if we are being honest, you can find things that the average member of one gender is better at than the other. This also shows it's head in the work place. Generalizations made about females and males are concerning the averages. On average, it's easier for a male to gain muscle mass. On average, women do better socially. Humans are uniquely adaptable so we can become better at things through practice. This does not alter the fact that people have different starting points for any skill set. Ignoring the differences does more harm than good.
- gunfighthacksaw 4y ago> Male competitiveness plays a huge role in the corporate world, and is a reasonable explanation for why the top of the hierarchy is naturally dominated by males Could you foresee this being a problem? Such as the best person for a job being passed over for someone more competitive/in the club? I also refer you to the observed effects of testosterone in financial markets (riskier trades, bubbles) which are typically seen as pathological. Personally I’m not extremely competitive but do suffer from the ‘testosterone-overdose’ fairly regularly which usually involves impulsivity and rashness.
- rybosworld 4y ago> Could you foresee this being a problem? Such as the best person for a job being passed over for someone more competitive/in the club? If we aim for meritocracy, then yes it's definitely an issue. The most competitive males tend to have lots of negative personality traits (e.g. low empathy). That is to say: It's very often not the smartest/most creative people that make it to the top. It's the most cutthroat.
- gumby 4y agoYou appear to be reasoning only using mammals.
- PeterWhittaker 4y agoWhile it isn’t stated in the headline, the article focuses primarily on large North American mammals.