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A real solution would be to get rid of these things: forsake the extra computers, the wireless contract, food produced and distributed by soulless corporations,

A real solution would be to get rid of these things: forsake the extra computers, the wireless contract, food produced and distributed by soulless corporations, the fancy cars; join or start a local food cooperative, live in a housing co-op, support credit unions, and aggressively buy local - even if it means severe inconvenience. Sure, that's one solution. But it depends on how you define the problem. The article here is rubbish and of no insight into any rational view of the problem (nor any insight into OWS). Indeed, the basic problem is very easy to express and comprehend: corporate control of government that results in socialism for corporate interests. That is the fundamental problem that has resulted in OWS. This is not new or shocking information. There is no big mystery as to the why's or what-for's of OWS. Forsaking convenience items is certainly not required to "solve" that problem nor is it likely to have any impact on that problem (canceling a cell phone plan, supporting credit unions or starting a local food co-op will have exactly zero impact on corporate control of government). Forsaking convenience items is only required if you conceive the problem to be a lack of "back to the land" mentality. That may or may not be a problem, but it is certainly not any rational view of OWS' perception of the problem. The article here and most other viewpoints (which are mostly critical of OWS) that I've seen appear to wish to narrow down everything to two absolute extremes: either everything stays exactly how it is, or everything is destroyed. There is a massive area between those extremes. It's that area that OWS is targeting.

gatlin 15y ago
There is a massive area between the two extremes, and I will assume you are putting me at one of them. This means I failed to communicate. If my food, entertainment, services, and small expenditures are predominantly local and my money is in a credit union I and my community have control over, then 1) I haven't gone "back to the land" but simply back to my home, and 2) that is money not going to any of the companies legislating their own irresponsible bailouts. Supporting strong local organizations owned and directed by local members can and absolutely would stymie Wall Street and corporate socialism.
- OpieCunningham 15y ago
  You stated a "real solution" was what I summarized as "back to the land", including dropping wireless contracts. That says to me you view other solutions as not real. That's an indication, not explicit certainly, that at some level you believe there are only 2 extremes available, as I described. Another solution is to demonstrate displeasure with the operation of government and methods of corporate interests. Engage enough citizens and sustain that demonstration. At some critical mass of both energy (people) and time, politicians will begin to notice and adjust their implementation of governance. This is a known good solution. See: civil rights protests in the 1960's as just one example.
  - gatlin 15y ago
    I explained in my reply that my solution is a fairly middle-ground endeavor: if you can avoid giving your money to The Problem, then do so. Notice I didn't say radically change your life. The Civil Rights movement was monumental but it didn't eradicate racism, the strong correlation between race and class, the achievement gap, or any number of equity issues. It caused us to shift what we consider to be normal and acceptable. Another component was people ditching the prejudices of their forefathers and doing something differently than before. Protest was complemented by action, which has been slowly changing the dynamics I described. Our exchange has helped me realize that I should frame my solution as a complement to the protests. Protests, by themselves, can be ignored, spun, and crushed under rubber soles. Action in the form of starving the machine you're protesting against complements this and shows that you are listening. It combines the "We're mad as hell" with the "we're not going to take it anymore." OWS is definitely galvanizing us to come up with a solution, but I don't think it is one on its own.
    - OpieCunningham 15y ago
      The Civil Rights movement was monumental but it didn't eradicate racism No. But it did lead to the government creating laws and regulations called the Civil Rights Act, which enforced desegregation and more. A dramatically major step towards adjusting society to address the existing problem. Considering effectively zero laws and regulations of merit have been implemented since 2008 in regards to the out of control behavior on Wall St, a comparative measure to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 seems to be in order. You're not going to get one by canceling you AT&T wireless plan and growing vegetables in your back yard. Of course, I don't mean to imply that the things you're doing aren't positive. Certainly they are. My point is simply that OWS is significantly more powerful in nature.

gatlin 15y ago

There is a massive area between the two extremes, and I will assume you are putting me at one of them. This means I failed to communicate. If my food, entertainment, services, and small expenditures are predominantly local and my money is in a credit union I and my community have control over, then 1) I haven't gone "back to the land" but simply back to my home, and 2) that is money not going to any of the companies legislating their own irresponsible bailouts. Supporting strong local organizations owned and directed by local members can and absolutely would stymie Wall Street and corporate socialism.

OpieCunningham 15y ago
You stated a "real solution" was what I summarized as "back to the land", including dropping wireless contracts. That says to me you view other solutions as not real. That's an indication, not explicit certainly, that at some level you believe there are only 2 extremes available, as I described. Another solution is to demonstrate displeasure with the operation of government and methods of corporate interests. Engage enough citizens and sustain that demonstration. At some critical mass of both energy (people) and time, politicians will begin to notice and adjust their implementation of governance. This is a known good solution. See: civil rights protests in the 1960's as just one example.
- gatlin 15y ago
  I explained in my reply that my solution is a fairly middle-ground endeavor: if you can avoid giving your money to The Problem, then do so. Notice I didn't say radically change your life. The Civil Rights movement was monumental but it didn't eradicate racism, the strong correlation between race and class, the achievement gap, or any number of equity issues. It caused us to shift what we consider to be normal and acceptable. Another component was people ditching the prejudices of their forefathers and doing something differently than before. Protest was complemented by action, which has been slowly changing the dynamics I described. Our exchange has helped me realize that I should frame my solution as a complement to the protests. Protests, by themselves, can be ignored, spun, and crushed under rubber soles. Action in the form of starving the machine you're protesting against complements this and shows that you are listening. It combines the "We're mad as hell" with the "we're not going to take it anymore." OWS is definitely galvanizing us to come up with a solution, but I don't think it is one on its own.
  - OpieCunningham 15y ago
    The Civil Rights movement was monumental but it didn't eradicate racism No. But it did lead to the government creating laws and regulations called the Civil Rights Act, which enforced desegregation and more. A dramatically major step towards adjusting society to address the existing problem. Considering effectively zero laws and regulations of merit have been implemented since 2008 in regards to the out of control behavior on Wall St, a comparative measure to the Civil Rights Act of 1964 seems to be in order. You're not going to get one by canceling you AT&T wireless plan and growing vegetables in your back yard. Of course, I don't mean to imply that the things you're doing aren't positive. Certainly they are. My point is simply that OWS is significantly more powerful in nature.