5 ms·

Some sources say the Bayraktar were decoys, some others say that they actually took down the radars on the Moskva before they fired the missiles. But I have a

by fer 5y ago

Some sources say the Bayraktar were decoys, some others say that they actually took down the radars on the Moskva before they fired the missiles. But I have a hard time picturing the Moskva having trouble destroying a drone with the performance of a WWI-era plane. It also had two radars, MR-710 and MR-800, but I'm unable to find if they have differences in terms of target tracking and acquisition.

giantrobot 5y ago
While the Bayraktars don't have stellar maneuverability they are stealthy and relatively small. They also don't use radar for targeting. For a ship to have good defense against such drones the radar's software needs to understand a drone's signatures and the crews also need to be trained for the same. Given the Russian army's current level of performance and the Russian navy's...entire history, I don't have any trouble believing the Moskva was beguiled by a drone.
- fer 5y ago
  Disclaimer: Armchair general. They have a small RCS, but they're slow as a dog, and signals at sea are significantly easier to interpret given that there's infinitely less spurious reflection and radio sources. Maybe the bad weather played a bigger role in that than I've seen accounted for. But even with detection at close range, any modern heat-seeking SAM should have absolutely no problem taking it down before it drops anything funny on target.
  - giantrobot 5y ago
    Search radars have to handle a lot of noise and signals from a number of sources. The radar systems need to be programmed to understand returns from different target types and their operators need to be trained to understand the readings. My point is based on the Russian navy's ignominious history it's unlikely their radars and operators have adequate capability to detect any aircraft or weapons that didn't exist in the 1970s when they were first designed. Additionally even if drones were detected the Moskva may not have been equipped with heat seeking munitions. Even if they had them, a drone at stand-off distance can easily be out of range of their targeting. The drones also only need to occupy the ship's attention long enough to distract it from the incoming anti-ship missiles. Even if the drones are shot down it's a small price to pay to disable or sink the Russia's biggest naval asset in the Black Sea. Finding things even in calm seas is hard. Aiming at those things is harder. Hitting those things with a fast moving thing is harder still. Poor equipment increases those difficulties as does poor crew capability. All of those combined makes for single use submarines.

by fer 5y ago

giantrobot 5y ago

While the Bayraktars don't have stellar maneuverability they are stealthy and relatively small. They also don't use radar for targeting. For a ship to have good defense against such drones the radar's software needs to understand a drone's signatures and the crews also need to be trained for the same. Given the Russian army's current level of performance and the Russian navy's...entire history, I don't have any trouble believing the Moskva was beguiled by a drone.

fer 5y ago
Disclaimer: Armchair general. They have a small RCS, but they're slow as a dog, and signals at sea are significantly easier to interpret given that there's infinitely less spurious reflection and radio sources. Maybe the bad weather played a bigger role in that than I've seen accounted for. But even with detection at close range, any modern heat-seeking SAM should have absolutely no problem taking it down before it drops anything funny on target.
- giantrobot 5y ago
  Search radars have to handle a lot of noise and signals from a number of sources. The radar systems need to be programmed to understand returns from different target types and their operators need to be trained to understand the readings. My point is based on the Russian navy's ignominious history it's unlikely their radars and operators have adequate capability to detect any aircraft or weapons that didn't exist in the 1970s when they were first designed. Additionally even if drones were detected the Moskva may not have been equipped with heat seeking munitions. Even if they had them, a drone at stand-off distance can easily be out of range of their targeting. The drones also only need to occupy the ship's attention long enough to distract it from the incoming anti-ship missiles. Even if the drones are shot down it's a small price to pay to disable or sink the Russia's biggest naval asset in the Black Sea. Finding things even in calm seas is hard. Aiming at those things is harder. Hitting those things with a fast moving thing is harder still. Poor equipment increases those difficulties as does poor crew capability. All of those combined makes for single use submarines.