6 ms·

Wait, so the punishment for not finishing is that... you don't have to pay?

sangnoir 5y ago
They leave the tab open, and possibly even leave the meter running[1] while you'e on a "break" - so you may end up paying for the time you were not in the cafe. 1. TFA doesn't say one way or the other, but the fact that they don't accept cash leaves the possibility open
- davidjytang 5y ago
  Their website indicates that the meteor is indeed left running.
unixhero 5y ago
This works in Japanese society.
robbedpeter 5y ago
Japanese culture is weird to a westerner in some ways. Their people are just as shitty and willing as any other humans to exploit for personal gain, but it's never admitted or discussed in "polite" company. If someone ripped them off like this, they'd be reported to police for whatever the dine&dash offense is, but everyone would pretend that it never happened. There's something desperately aspirational about certain parts of their culture.
- MathYouF 5y ago
  For anyone else reading, this does not seem like a qualified or legitimate take on Japanese life from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo. Maybe the OP has had equal personal experience and just percieved it differently, but there's almost no chance a Japanese person in Tokyo would dine and dash, and being raised in their culture from birth absolutely does make one less inclined to do things like that. Post-modernist views that all cultures make people who are equally bad and good and that it has little effect simply don't hold up to even a cursory analysis of available statistics on the regional rates of crime/violence/exploitation worldwide.
  - robbedpeter 5y ago
    Crime statistics only work if they're recorded honestly. Lots of crimes are seriously underreported in Japan, but it's been getting better over the last decade or so. Humans are humans are humans. Get any large enough group of them and some percent will be law breakers. This isn't post-modernist, it's common sense. Culture has an impact, obviously, but police corruption, underreporting, and maintaining reputation play a significant factor in Japan's low crime rates.
    - buzzard1 5y ago
    - MathYouF 5y ago
      I witnessed zero crimes committed living for a year in the middle of a 30 million person city (Tokyo) . I also witnessed no yelling, no littering, no fighting in public, no speaking loudly or playing music on public transportation, no public shouting of vulgarity, and no theft. I left my Macbook in a Starbucks unattended for an hour and walked around a mall and it was still there when I came back. All places and people and cultures are not the same. There are objective measures one can use to see this is true. Take a walk around Manhattan (~11 million) or any other city in the world and try to replicate my results. Culture matters and has an effect on making better citizens and therefore a better quality of life for everyone. It is not simply a matter of them pretending to have these virtues, they have them and the evidence is reflected both in numbers and ones personal experience if they visit.
      - hogehoge51 5y ago
        Having lived in Tokyo long enough to have witnessed crime (with blood on the pavement), reported crime to the police, have people admit their minor criminal behaviour to me, and also hear second hand reports of serous criminal behaviour of people I know, I would limit the time I leave a high end laptop unattended in a busy Starbucks to the time it takes to order a refill/snack or go to the toilet :-) in fact I’ve done it probably hundreds of times. Which is to say I have no real concerns about crime there, but am no idealist. I would not leave a laptop unattended in my own country for any amount of time, the culture of westerners is far more opportunistic for even minor individual gain, and much less conscious of one’s place in society.
atchoo 5y ago
Kind of clever. If in the depths of a block I could see myself giving up a deposit for the maximum self-destructive experience... but running out without paying crosses a moral line and hurts someone other than me that I couldn't do it.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  It reminds me of the possibly apocryphal story of a daycare that got tired of parents picking their kids up late. They decided to start charging a fee every time a parent was late to pick up. Once they did, parents were actually more likely to pick their kids up late. Presumably because they figured they were paying for the privilege.
  - gregplaysguitar 5y ago
    Not apocryphal :) https://freakonomics.com/2013/10/what-makes-people-do-what-they-do/ https://freakonomics.com/2013/10/what-makes-people-do-what-t...
    - onionisafruit 5y ago
      Well it’s not it the protestant bible, so it’s not canon, but it’s not part of the apocrypha either. I just don’t know.
      - smugma 5y ago
        Why doubt the claim? It is initially counter intuitive but actually makes sense if you think about it. In any case, it’s not just a story, it is described in this paper: https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine.pdf https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine...
        onionisafruit 5y ago
        I was making a dumb comment about the use of the word apocryphal. I thought I was clever last night. I’ve read about the daycare fines before and didn’t have reason to doubt it any more or less than other anecdotes I’ve read. The paper you linked seems like pretty good evidence that it actually happened — assuming the rest of the paper supports the abstract.
makeitdouble 5y ago
If you leave without paying it also means you're probably never be allowed to use the Cafe again (just like any cafe/restaurant really...)
andrei_says_ 5y ago
It’s Japan. Being the kind of person who leaves without paying is… not an aspiration.
lkrubner 5y ago
This is Japan, in a nutshell

They leave the tab open, and possibly even leave the meter running[1] while you'e on a "break" - so you may end up paying for the time you were not in the cafe. 1. TFA doesn't say one way or the other, but the fact that they don't accept cash leaves the possibility open

davidjytang 5y ago
Their website indicates that the meteor is indeed left running.

unixhero 5y ago

This works in Japanese society.

robbedpeter 5y ago

Japanese culture is weird to a westerner in some ways. Their people are just as shitty and willing as any other humans to exploit for personal gain, but it's never admitted or discussed in "polite" company. If someone ripped them off like this, they'd be reported to police for whatever the dine&dash offense is, but everyone would pretend that it never happened. There's something desperately aspirational about certain parts of their culture.

MathYouF 5y ago
For anyone else reading, this does not seem like a qualified or legitimate take on Japanese life from my experience of a year of actually living in Tokyo. Maybe the OP has had equal personal experience and just percieved it differently, but there's almost no chance a Japanese person in Tokyo would dine and dash, and being raised in their culture from birth absolutely does make one less inclined to do things like that. Post-modernist views that all cultures make people who are equally bad and good and that it has little effect simply don't hold up to even a cursory analysis of available statistics on the regional rates of crime/violence/exploitation worldwide.
- robbedpeter 5y ago
  Crime statistics only work if they're recorded honestly. Lots of crimes are seriously underreported in Japan, but it's been getting better over the last decade or so. Humans are humans are humans. Get any large enough group of them and some percent will be law breakers. This isn't post-modernist, it's common sense. Culture has an impact, obviously, but police corruption, underreporting, and maintaining reputation play a significant factor in Japan's low crime rates.
  - buzzard1 5y ago
  - MathYouF 5y ago
    I witnessed zero crimes committed living for a year in the middle of a 30 million person city (Tokyo) . I also witnessed no yelling, no littering, no fighting in public, no speaking loudly or playing music on public transportation, no public shouting of vulgarity, and no theft. I left my Macbook in a Starbucks unattended for an hour and walked around a mall and it was still there when I came back. All places and people and cultures are not the same. There are objective measures one can use to see this is true. Take a walk around Manhattan (~11 million) or any other city in the world and try to replicate my results. Culture matters and has an effect on making better citizens and therefore a better quality of life for everyone. It is not simply a matter of them pretending to have these virtues, they have them and the evidence is reflected both in numbers and ones personal experience if they visit.
    - hogehoge51 5y ago
      Having lived in Tokyo long enough to have witnessed crime (with blood on the pavement), reported crime to the police, have people admit their minor criminal behaviour to me, and also hear second hand reports of serous criminal behaviour of people I know, I would limit the time I leave a high end laptop unattended in a busy Starbucks to the time it takes to order a refill/snack or go to the toilet :-) in fact I’ve done it probably hundreds of times. Which is to say I have no real concerns about crime there, but am no idealist. I would not leave a laptop unattended in my own country for any amount of time, the culture of westerners is far more opportunistic for even minor individual gain, and much less conscious of one’s place in society.

atchoo 5y ago

Kind of clever. If in the depths of a block I could see myself giving up a deposit for the maximum self-destructive experience... but running out without paying crosses a moral line and hurts someone other than me that I couldn't do it.

Rebelgecko 5y ago
It reminds me of the possibly apocryphal story of a daycare that got tired of parents picking their kids up late. They decided to start charging a fee every time a parent was late to pick up. Once they did, parents were actually more likely to pick their kids up late. Presumably because they figured they were paying for the privilege.
- gregplaysguitar 5y ago
  Not apocryphal :) https://freakonomics.com/2013/10/what-makes-people-do-what-they-do/ https://freakonomics.com/2013/10/what-makes-people-do-what-t...
  - onionisafruit 5y ago
    Well it’s not it the protestant bible, so it’s not canon, but it’s not part of the apocrypha either. I just don’t know.
    - smugma 5y ago
      Why doubt the claim? It is initially counter intuitive but actually makes sense if you think about it. In any case, it’s not just a story, it is described in this paper: https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine.pdf https://rady.ucsd.edu/faculty/directory/gneezy/pub/docs/fine...
      - onionisafruit 5y ago
        I was making a dumb comment about the use of the word apocryphal. I thought I was clever last night. I’ve read about the daycare fines before and didn’t have reason to doubt it any more or less than other anecdotes I’ve read. The paper you linked seems like pretty good evidence that it actually happened — assuming the rest of the paper supports the abstract.

makeitdouble 5y ago

If you leave without paying it also means you're probably never be allowed to use the Cafe again (just like any cafe/restaurant really...)

andrei_says_ 5y ago

It’s Japan. Being the kind of person who leaves without paying is… not an aspiration.

lkrubner 5y ago

This is Japan, in a nutshell