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The scenario above was, russia attacks a nuclear plant on purpose, with the intention to destroy or damage it. What happened in the Ukraine lately was no such

The scenario above was, russia attacks a nuclear plant on purpose, with the intention to destroy or damage it. What happened in the Ukraine lately was no such thing, it was conquering a nuclear plant and the plant itself was not damaged in the process. Still irresponsible and criminal, (like the whole war) - but not the same as targeting a nuclear plant, with the intention to destroy.

Retric 5y ago
The power plant avoided critical damage, but it was very much harmed in the attack. As far as analysis goes you can’t limit things to exactly what happened. If attacking nuclear power plants is on the table then a single miscommunication means someone is attempting to destroy it. Even just destroying some water pipes or some generators could lead to very serious issues.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "The power plant avoided critical damage, but it was very much harmed in the attack." Source? As far as I know and what wikipedia confirms, is that the plant itself was not damaged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Pla... "During approximately two hours of heavy fighting a fire broke out in a training facility outside of the main complex, which was extinguished by 6:20am,[21][22] though other sections surrounding the plant sustained damage.[19] As of 04:20 UTC on March 4, the IAEA said that the fire, which was in a training building, had been extinguished. It did not impact reactor safety or any essential equipment"
  - Retric 5y ago
    Your Wikipedia link includes this: “The plant lost 1.3 GW of capacity which then was compensated by additional 9 power units in the thermal power station nearby.” From here: https://energo.dtek.com/en/media-center/press/dtek-tpps-compensates-for-the-shutdown-of-units-of-zaporizhzhya-npp-due-to-attack-by-occupiers-/ https://energo.dtek.com/en/media-center/press/dtek-tpps-comp... * As a result of an armed attack by the invaders on the Zaporozhia NPP, 1.3 GW of capacity generated by nuclear units has been lost.* If the power plant was I damaged it wouldn’t have lost capacity.
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      "If the power plant was I damaged it wouldn’t have lost capacity." The link stated it was not damaged, so another explanation would be it was partly shut down. Missing crew, safety precautions, who knows. It is a warzone.
      - Retric 5y ago
        They where very clear that damage occurred to the power plant not the physical reactor, while safety was maintained: > In its statement the SNRIU said Zaporozhe's six power units "remain intact, the unit 1 reactor compartment auxiliary buildings have been damaged, which does not affect the safety of the unit. The systems and components important to the safety of the NPP are operational. At present, no changes in the radiation situation have been registered." https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/IAEA-appeal-after-shelling-and-fire-at-Zaporozhe https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/IAEA-appeal-afte... >The fire, in a training building a few hundred metres from the reactors, was extinguished at 06:20 local time, SNRIU said. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said it had been told the fire at the site had not affected "essential equipment and plant personnel were taking mitigatory actions". It’s however important to realize reactors need auxiliary systems outside the physical building for cooling. I guess it’s possible the attack was precise enough to avoid such damage, but I can only assume some good luck was involved.
Johnny555 5y ago
What happened in Ukraine doesn't really provide much insight into what would happen in a war with Germany. If Russia bombed Ukrainian nuclear plants and sent a cloud of radioactive fallout over Europe, that could be seen as a direct attack against NATO and get them involved in the war. So Russia has a big incentive to not attack nuclear plants. But if Russia is already willing to attack a NATO country, then it's not clear that they would shy away from bombing nuclear plants, which would act as a distraction as Germany devoted resources to stop the radioactive emissions.
- cft 5y ago
  If Russia was willing to attack NATO, it would drop actual nuclear bombs, that are way more lethal than destruction of nuclear plants
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    But that would almost certainly trigger nuclear retaliation... if they drop conventional bombs on nuclear plants, the retaliation level is is much less clear.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      Same argument applies to dirty bombs and chemical weapons or anthrax. Which are much more readilly avaliable and could be used to attack cities - whereas a nuclear plant is the countryside is going to do comparatively little.

Retric 5y ago

The power plant avoided critical damage, but it was very much harmed in the attack. As far as analysis goes you can’t limit things to exactly what happened. If attacking nuclear power plants is on the table then a single miscommunication means someone is attempting to destroy it. Even just destroying some water pipes or some generators could lead to very serious issues.

hutzlibu 5y ago
"The power plant avoided critical damage, but it was very much harmed in the attack." Source? As far as I know and what wikipedia confirms, is that the plant itself was not damaged. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Plant#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaporizhzhia_Nuclear_Power_Pla... "During approximately two hours of heavy fighting a fire broke out in a training facility outside of the main complex, which was extinguished by 6:20am,[21][22] though other sections surrounding the plant sustained damage.[19] As of 04:20 UTC on March 4, the IAEA said that the fire, which was in a training building, had been extinguished. It did not impact reactor safety or any essential equipment"
- Retric 5y ago
  Your Wikipedia link includes this: “The plant lost 1.3 GW of capacity which then was compensated by additional 9 power units in the thermal power station nearby.” From here: https://energo.dtek.com/en/media-center/press/dtek-tpps-compensates-for-the-shutdown-of-units-of-zaporizhzhya-npp-due-to-attack-by-occupiers-/ https://energo.dtek.com/en/media-center/press/dtek-tpps-comp... * As a result of an armed attack by the invaders on the Zaporozhia NPP, 1.3 GW of capacity generated by nuclear units has been lost.* If the power plant was I damaged it wouldn’t have lost capacity.
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    "If the power plant was I damaged it wouldn’t have lost capacity." The link stated it was not damaged, so another explanation would be it was partly shut down. Missing crew, safety precautions, who knows. It is a warzone.
    - Retric 5y ago
      They where very clear that damage occurred to the power plant not the physical reactor, while safety was maintained: > In its statement the SNRIU said Zaporozhe's six power units "remain intact, the unit 1 reactor compartment auxiliary buildings have been damaged, which does not affect the safety of the unit. The systems and components important to the safety of the NPP are operational. At present, no changes in the radiation situation have been registered." https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/IAEA-appeal-after-shelling-and-fire-at-Zaporozhe https://www.world-nuclear-news.org/Articles/IAEA-appeal-afte... >The fire, in a training building a few hundred metres from the reactors, was extinguished at 06:20 local time, SNRIU said. The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) said it had been told the fire at the site had not affected "essential equipment and plant personnel were taking mitigatory actions". It’s however important to realize reactors need auxiliary systems outside the physical building for cooling. I guess it’s possible the attack was precise enough to avoid such damage, but I can only assume some good luck was involved.

Johnny555 5y ago

What happened in Ukraine doesn't really provide much insight into what would happen in a war with Germany. If Russia bombed Ukrainian nuclear plants and sent a cloud of radioactive fallout over Europe, that could be seen as a direct attack against NATO and get them involved in the war. So Russia has a big incentive to not attack nuclear plants. But if Russia is already willing to attack a NATO country, then it's not clear that they would shy away from bombing nuclear plants, which would act as a distraction as Germany devoted resources to stop the radioactive emissions.

cft 5y ago
If Russia was willing to attack NATO, it would drop actual nuclear bombs, that are way more lethal than destruction of nuclear plants
- Johnny555 5y ago
  But that would almost certainly trigger nuclear retaliation... if they drop conventional bombs on nuclear plants, the retaliation level is is much less clear.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    Same argument applies to dirty bombs and chemical weapons or anthrax. Which are much more readilly avaliable and could be used to attack cities - whereas a nuclear plant is the countryside is going to do comparatively little.