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My understanding is that--according to Western sources--Chinese people report high satisfaction with their government, much higher than US citizens. I feel that

by _gkwp 4y ago

My understanding is that--according to Western sources--Chinese people report high satisfaction with their government, much higher than US citizens. I feel that this metric should also be considered when evaluating the quality of life in a society. As for the point on Xinjiang, I think the oppression of people there is real, but oppression of religious minorities isn't just a non-Western phenomenon; look at France, for example. Consider the source of your information about other societies. The elites of Western society, who have a great interest in preserving Western societies as they are and who hold a lot of control of the media, want to align the populous against the enemies of the Western elites. The flaws of enemy countries will therefore tend to be exaggerated, sometimes highly so. Western societies will tend to be portrayed as the best anyone can hope for.

kurthr 4y ago
I've traveled to China for two decades. There is both great prosperity and astounding poverty there ($300=2000Yuan/year is defined as poverty). Whatever you may see on TV there is plenty of homelessness even in Shanghai/Beijing/Shenzhen (for many who lack an appropriate identity card) and also much greater destitution in the outlying regions. There is no free medical care. Of course "people report" high satisfaction with a government that can and does throw them in jail for disagreeing. That visibly happens even in independent Hong Kong. Be careful what "Western sources" are actually propaganda outlets. It is amazing what large monetary donations to journalism and research universities can buy in the US, EU, and Australia, but there is plenty of other documentation. That you compare "religious suppression" (reeducation prison camps with forced labor and sterilization) in Xinjiang to not wearing a hijab in France is quite frankly shocking. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-bir... https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we...
- _gkwp 4y ago
  You shouldn't just evaluate governments based on reported approval, but approval does mean something. I don't think you have provided sufficient evidence to be able to dismiss the data. I don't think my comparison to France is as shocking as you claim, but perhaps a better comparison would be Canada's treatment of indigenous people. I thought this video on the topic of Xinjiang was pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js Edit: About France, here's an article on the topic I was referring to: <https://theintercept.com/2019/02/23/france-islamophobia-islam-french-muslims-terrorism/ https://theintercept.com/2019/02/23/france-islamophobia-isla...>. A quote: "[France] has become a 'laboratory' for discriminatory laws targeting minorities, particularly Muslims."
- bllguo 4y ago
  You haven't even done basic research. Random sources you pulled from cursory web searches, with origins in _actual_ propaganda funded by the US government, are legitimate to you? You literally cite Adrian Zenz. But Harvard polls on government approval are "propaganda outlets" because they contradict your beliefs. Shocking indeed.

by _gkwp 4y ago

kurthr 4y ago

I've traveled to China for two decades. There is both great prosperity and astounding poverty there ($300=2000Yuan/year is defined as poverty). Whatever you may see on TV there is plenty of homelessness even in Shanghai/Beijing/Shenzhen (for many who lack an appropriate identity card) and also much greater destitution in the outlying regions. There is no free medical care. Of course "people report" high satisfaction with a government that can and does throw them in jail for disagreeing. That visibly happens even in independent Hong Kong. Be careful what "Western sources" are actually propaganda outlets. It is amazing what large monetary donations to journalism and research universities can buy in the US, EU, and Australia, but there is plenty of other documentation. That you compare "religious suppression" (reeducation prison camps with forced labor and sterilization) in Xinjiang to not wearing a hijab in France is quite frankly shocking. https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-birthrate-sterilization-genocide https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22311356/china-uyghur-bir... https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-we...

_gkwp 4y ago
You shouldn't just evaluate governments based on reported approval, but approval does mean something. I don't think you have provided sufficient evidence to be able to dismiss the data. I don't think my comparison to France is as shocking as you claim, but perhaps a better comparison would be Canada's treatment of indigenous people. I thought this video on the topic of Xinjiang was pretty good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js Edit: About France, here's an article on the topic I was referring to: <https://theintercept.com/2019/02/23/france-islamophobia-islam-french-muslims-terrorism/ https://theintercept.com/2019/02/23/france-islamophobia-isla...>. A quote: "[France] has become a 'laboratory' for discriminatory laws targeting minorities, particularly Muslims."
bllguo 4y ago
You haven't even done basic research. Random sources you pulled from cursory web searches, with origins in _actual_ propaganda funded by the US government, are legitimate to you? You literally cite Adrian Zenz. But Harvard polls on government approval are "propaganda outlets" because they contradict your beliefs. Shocking indeed.