3 ms·

We literally KNOW about the Intel ME and AMD PSP and we KNOW about all the windows telemetry yet most of the worlds IT runs on systems with these backdoors. The

by dtx1 5y ago

We literally KNOW about the Intel ME and AMD PSP and we KNOW about all the windows telemetry yet most of the worlds IT runs on systems with these backdoors. There's no need to hide it in the first place

jaywalk 5y ago
I think biasing a HWRNG is in an entirely different league than the stuff you mentioned.
avianes 4y ago
And because we KNOW about the Intel ME many security researchers have been looking for backdoors and vulnerabilities in it, several vulnerabilities have been found but no backdoor. If Intel wants to put a backdoor ME would probably be a bad choice because it's a too obvious and monitored location
uxp100 5y ago
This could be more about a rogue actor in a fab leaking Xbox private keys, for example. And Microsoft cares about that a lot, I think mainly because they worry non-legitimate copies of real games could be inserted into the supply chain at some point (though digital download sort of makes this irrelevant)
- dtx1 5y ago
  I hadn't considered that the victim might not necessarily be the end consumer. Interesting point
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    The end consumer may be the least likely target. More likely, a customer of the end consumer, or OEMs loading what they had hoped was protected code onto a microcontroller.
monocasa 5y ago
I mean, the Russian Elbrus chips boot Windows (and a version of Windows built from source by Russians), all without Intel ME or AMD PSP. But modern Elbrus is fabbed by TSMC. And security agencies have proved that they take a layered, multipronged approach to SIGINT, even against companies that are directly working with them. Google working with the NSA didn't stop the NSA from also tapping Google's inter-datacenter traffic without telling Google.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  Do you have more information about the second version of Windows that was compiled? I never looked at the leaked source code, but was under the impression that it wouldn't compile into a usable system.
  - duskwuff 5y ago
    There have been multiple leaks of Windows source code. At least one of them included almost everything required to build Windows XP: https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-xp-leak-confirmed-after-user-compiles-the-leaked-code-into-a-working-os/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-xp-leak-confirmed-afte... The only missing component was winlogin.exe, probably because of its involvement with the activation process.
    - monocasa 5y ago
      And I can tell you having put winlogon under ghidra (and before that, IDA) that there's really not all that much in there.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    Microsoft just gives large state actors full source access to alleviate their fears of precompiled software, including Russia. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-turns-over-all-win7-and-server-source-code-to-russias-new-kgb/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-turns-over-all-win7-... That being said, some of the leaks also simply provide enough code to compile a more or less complete system. https://fossbytes.com/youtuber-compiles-windows-xp-leaked-source-code/ https://fossbytes.com/youtuber-compiles-windows-xp-leaked-so...

by dtx1 5y ago

jaywalk 5y ago

I think biasing a HWRNG is in an entirely different league than the stuff you mentioned.

avianes 4y ago

And because we KNOW about the Intel ME many security researchers have been looking for backdoors and vulnerabilities in it, several vulnerabilities have been found but no backdoor. If Intel wants to put a backdoor ME would probably be a bad choice because it's a too obvious and monitored location

uxp100 5y ago

This could be more about a rogue actor in a fab leaking Xbox private keys, for example. And Microsoft cares about that a lot, I think mainly because they worry non-legitimate copies of real games could be inserted into the supply chain at some point (though digital download sort of makes this irrelevant)

dtx1 5y ago
I hadn't considered that the victim might not necessarily be the end consumer. Interesting point
- ncmncm 5y ago
  The end consumer may be the least likely target. More likely, a customer of the end consumer, or OEMs loading what they had hoped was protected code onto a microcontroller.

monocasa 5y ago

I mean, the Russian Elbrus chips boot Windows (and a version of Windows built from source by Russians), all without Intel ME or AMD PSP. But modern Elbrus is fabbed by TSMC. And security agencies have proved that they take a layered, multipronged approach to SIGINT, even against companies that are directly working with them. Google working with the NSA didn't stop the NSA from also tapping Google's inter-datacenter traffic without telling Google.

heavyset_go 5y ago
Do you have more information about the second version of Windows that was compiled? I never looked at the leaked source code, but was under the impression that it wouldn't compile into a usable system.
- duskwuff 5y ago
  There have been multiple leaks of Windows source code. At least one of them included almost everything required to build Windows XP: https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-xp-leak-confirmed-after-user-compiles-the-leaked-code-into-a-working-os/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-xp-leak-confirmed-afte... The only missing component was winlogin.exe, probably because of its involvement with the activation process.
  - monocasa 5y ago
    And I can tell you having put winlogon under ghidra (and before that, IDA) that there's really not all that much in there.
- monocasa 5y ago
  Microsoft just gives large state actors full source access to alleviate their fears of precompiled software, including Russia. https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-turns-over-all-win7-and-server-source-code-to-russias-new-kgb/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-turns-over-all-win7-... That being said, some of the leaks also simply provide enough code to compile a more or less complete system. https://fossbytes.com/youtuber-compiles-windows-xp-leaked-source-code/ https://fossbytes.com/youtuber-compiles-windows-xp-leaked-so...