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Why Hitler escaping a "conspiracy theory"? A leader of a losing country fleeing for his life is not a far fetched hypothesis, especially given how the US active

Why Hitler escaping a "conspiracy theory"? A leader of a losing country fleeing for his life is not a far fetched hypothesis, especially given how the US actively recruited Nazis through Operation Paperclip and Operation Gladio for scientific and non-scientific purposes. I understand and agree that this study seems to put this question to rest (I would like to read the actual study tho) but just using the label "conspiracy theory" is simply intellectual laziness and doesn't advance the conversation.

krapp 5y ago
It's a conspiracy theory because it's a theory about a conspiracy.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  "Conspiracy theory" is a pejorative directed at theories about conspiracies that implies irrationality or mental illness.
  - krapp 5y ago
    Do you believe that's because there are established links between mental illness and belief in conspiracy theories, and many such conspiracies are irrational, or because it's all a campaign by the CIA to discredit truth-seekers who threaten the establishment order?
Someone 5y ago
> Why Hitler escaping a "conspiracy theory"? No, but claiming Russia and/or the USA lie about his death is. They likely had the the opportunity and the means to do that, but what would be their motive?
sofixa 5y ago
Because the proof was overwhelmingly pointing at the other direction. It ranges from his defeatism earlier on, multiple eyewitness accounts from his last days, including his refusals to evacuate (including people begging him to join them in running away), the official Soviet accounts, etc. And around zero proof that anything else happened and he somehow miraculously escaped from the surrounded Berlin. So it's a baseless conspiracy. Now, what happened to the Gestapo Heinrich Muller is a mystery and warrants a conspiracy theory. Highly skilled man, ideologically flexible, didn't tell anybody he'd rather die, and no body has been linked to be his. He's probably in a mass grave in Berlin, but it's at least plausible he might have escaped.
- helloworld11 5y ago
  Also worth mentioning is that Hitler's health by the last days was so terrible that any sort of serious escape would have been exceptionally difficult. If even the clever, very capable and well organized Heinrich Himmler, with a face that was hardly memorable at the time couldn't successfully pull off an escape It strains the imagination believing that the nearly crippled Hitler, with one of the world's most absolutely famous faces could have gotten away without a single piece of evidence ever appearing to back up this idea. After the war, many Nazis that got away were tracked down. They sometimes couldn't be captured but at least certain intelligence agencies or groups knew where they'd hidden (looking at you Mossad). Yet somehow Hitler himself just vanished, assuming you don't believe the much more plausible official story. edit: The Gestapo Muller case is indeed interesting. That guy truly did just vanish into thin air, and aside from being a barely famous face, he had an extremely common name. His position would have definitely allowed him to prepare a truly deep disappearing act and his lack of ideology too. On the other hand, people thought similar about Martin Borman, Hitler's personal secretary and Party secretary, for decades, until DNA testing of remains found close to where the Nazi chancellery in Berlin had been proved that he'd died in the city while fleeing, only hours after leaving the bunker.
- postingposts 5y ago
  I’m open-minded about the subject. Here are some concerns I have with your claim: is the proof provided by either the Russians or the Germans? If so, it’s only as meaningful as any other story during that time. The Germans are smart enough to falsify a story that leads to a dead end before doing an escape, and the Russians are smart enough not to lose face if they can’t find him. Could you explain why that’s not plausible?

krapp 5y ago

It's a conspiracy theory because it's a theory about a conspiracy.

pessimizer 5y ago
"Conspiracy theory" is a pejorative directed at theories about conspiracies that implies irrationality or mental illness.
- krapp 5y ago
  Do you believe that's because there are established links between mental illness and belief in conspiracy theories, and many such conspiracies are irrational, or because it's all a campaign by the CIA to discredit truth-seekers who threaten the establishment order?

Someone 5y ago

> Why Hitler escaping a "conspiracy theory"? No, but claiming Russia and/or the USA lie about his death is. They likely had the the opportunity and the means to do that, but what would be their motive?

sofixa 5y ago

Because the proof was overwhelmingly pointing at the other direction. It ranges from his defeatism earlier on, multiple eyewitness accounts from his last days, including his refusals to evacuate (including people begging him to join them in running away), the official Soviet accounts, etc. And around zero proof that anything else happened and he somehow miraculously escaped from the surrounded Berlin. So it's a baseless conspiracy. Now, what happened to the Gestapo Heinrich Muller is a mystery and warrants a conspiracy theory. Highly skilled man, ideologically flexible, didn't tell anybody he'd rather die, and no body has been linked to be his. He's probably in a mass grave in Berlin, but it's at least plausible he might have escaped.

helloworld11 5y ago
Also worth mentioning is that Hitler's health by the last days was so terrible that any sort of serious escape would have been exceptionally difficult. If even the clever, very capable and well organized Heinrich Himmler, with a face that was hardly memorable at the time couldn't successfully pull off an escape It strains the imagination believing that the nearly crippled Hitler, with one of the world's most absolutely famous faces could have gotten away without a single piece of evidence ever appearing to back up this idea. After the war, many Nazis that got away were tracked down. They sometimes couldn't be captured but at least certain intelligence agencies or groups knew where they'd hidden (looking at you Mossad). Yet somehow Hitler himself just vanished, assuming you don't believe the much more plausible official story. edit: The Gestapo Muller case is indeed interesting. That guy truly did just vanish into thin air, and aside from being a barely famous face, he had an extremely common name. His position would have definitely allowed him to prepare a truly deep disappearing act and his lack of ideology too. On the other hand, people thought similar about Martin Borman, Hitler's personal secretary and Party secretary, for decades, until DNA testing of remains found close to where the Nazi chancellery in Berlin had been proved that he'd died in the city while fleeing, only hours after leaving the bunker.
postingposts 5y ago
I’m open-minded about the subject. Here are some concerns I have with your claim: is the proof provided by either the Russians or the Germans? If so, it’s only as meaningful as any other story during that time. The Germans are smart enough to falsify a story that leads to a dead end before doing an escape, and the Russians are smart enough not to lose face if they can’t find him. Could you explain why that’s not plausible?