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> I'd love to see what information justifies the rape of 25 women in a basement [1]. Or the widespread destruction of civilian areas, rampant rape and murder.

> I'd love to see what information justifies the rape of 25 women in a basement [1]. Or the widespread destruction of civilian areas, rampant rape and murder. Any modern war is an information war more than anything... and I mean everything from the first world war. You linking to a BBC website is very interesting because they were the first successful mass propaganda machine distributed all around the world via radio. Even more intersting bit what the BBC doesn't report. The same things have happened in every war where the western forces and allies have been involved, and the real information only comes out, if ever, after it becomes irrelevant. If it comes out while it is relevant, we know exactly what happens to those who are responsible... look at Manning and Assange.

grumple 4y ago
Ok, "Comrade". What you're doing here is classic whataboutism. You have deflected any responsibility or acknowledgement of the facts: that Russia initiated the conflict without provocation, that it was under false pretenses (Nazi fear? against one of two nations led by a Jew?), and that it continues to brutalize, murder, and rape civilians. Your deflection to talk about media treatment is just that: deflection. And frankly, destruction of civilians by US forces are rare (not 0, but rare). This is common behavior from Russian forces, there are a thousand similar reports from the last month. So let's get back to talking about the behavior by Russia. An unprovoked war in which they are killing and hurting Ukrainians to fuel the ego and agenda of Putin, and Putin alone.
- ComradePhil 4y ago
  I have addressed whataboutism here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510093 I can add a little bit more. When you are bringing up a value you think the other side has violated and when someone points out that you don't care about those values at all because the side you are defending does the exact same thing, boomers have been trained to pretentiously scream "whataboutism" and act as if that somehow makes their argument stronger. Boomer media just made that the last word and made it seem like it was a valid argument. It's not. It's like someone presenting a video evidence of your crime and you suing them for filming you without consent. > Russia initiated the conflict without provocation I saw plenty of provocation. I guess you are limited by your top-down media which filters out anything that doesn't align with their goals... so I understand why you would think that... but I'm inviting you to take a wider perspective and see it from the Russian side. If you think Russian action on Ukraine was unprovoked, do you also think the US acted disproportionately when the "Cuban missile crisis"? Or are you a hypocrite? > there are a thousand similar reports from the last month. Ukraine, NATO and the US have incentive to fabricate those reports... and Russia has reasons to deny them. The US has been caught hiding human rights abuses done by themselves and their allies while amplifying or even fabricating that of the enemy in the past. There's little reason to believe that they aren't doing it now. Wars are messy and strategic advantage is paramount... and oftentimes, elements in them do things they think they can get away with... and these things are never fairly reported by either side. Amplification of wrongdoings of others and supperessing that of your own side is expected part of it. I expect both sides to do it for obvious reasons.

grumple 4y ago

Ok, "Comrade". What you're doing here is classic whataboutism. You have deflected any responsibility or acknowledgement of the facts: that Russia initiated the conflict without provocation, that it was under false pretenses (Nazi fear? against one of two nations led by a Jew?), and that it continues to brutalize, murder, and rape civilians. Your deflection to talk about media treatment is just that: deflection. And frankly, destruction of civilians by US forces are rare (not 0, but rare). This is common behavior from Russian forces, there are a thousand similar reports from the last month. So let's get back to talking about the behavior by Russia. An unprovoked war in which they are killing and hurting Ukrainians to fuel the ego and agenda of Putin, and Putin alone.

ComradePhil 4y ago
I have addressed whataboutism here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510093 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30510093 I can add a little bit more. When you are bringing up a value you think the other side has violated and when someone points out that you don't care about those values at all because the side you are defending does the exact same thing, boomers have been trained to pretentiously scream "whataboutism" and act as if that somehow makes their argument stronger. Boomer media just made that the last word and made it seem like it was a valid argument. It's not. It's like someone presenting a video evidence of your crime and you suing them for filming you without consent. > Russia initiated the conflict without provocation I saw plenty of provocation. I guess you are limited by your top-down media which filters out anything that doesn't align with their goals... so I understand why you would think that... but I'm inviting you to take a wider perspective and see it from the Russian side. If you think Russian action on Ukraine was unprovoked, do you also think the US acted disproportionately when the "Cuban missile crisis"? Or are you a hypocrite? > there are a thousand similar reports from the last month. Ukraine, NATO and the US have incentive to fabricate those reports... and Russia has reasons to deny them. The US has been caught hiding human rights abuses done by themselves and their allies while amplifying or even fabricating that of the enemy in the past. There's little reason to believe that they aren't doing it now. Wars are messy and strategic advantage is paramount... and oftentimes, elements in them do things they think they can get away with... and these things are never fairly reported by either side. Amplification of wrongdoings of others and supperessing that of your own side is expected part of it. I expect both sides to do it for obvious reasons.