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I keep seeing this "eternal six months away" FUD, but no one wants to admit the devs delivered on the Beacon Chain which has been running smoothly for 1.5 years

by pshc 4y ago

I keep seeing this "eternal six months away" FUD, but no one wants to admit the devs delivered on the Beacon Chain which has been running smoothly for 1.5 years, and the Merge testnets are working quite well. Bitcoin maximalists are out there all day grousing about made-up deadlines promised by strawmen and laundered through hearsay. It has nothing to do with reality.

recursive 4y ago
I understand the arguments about how cryptocurrencies use too much electricity, but I understand none of what you've just said.
- pshc 4y ago
  I can try to contextualize this... at least explain my understanding of the history. Bitcoin grows popular and its proof of work burns increasing amounts of electricity. Ethereum devs do not want to see Eth go the same way, and prioritize Proof of Stake, which will not require any more waste. The devs sketch out new roadmaps, do research, and make slow but steady progress; software always takes longer than you think. Meanwhile, Bitcoin has completely fossilized for political reasons and basically cannot be improved at this point. Bitcoin maximalists (diehards) recognize Eth as an existential threat and start pushing this meme of PoS being always 6 months away, despite the actual Eth devs never promising such things.
  - ryan_lane 4y ago
    It's the Eth people who constantly say it's 6 months away. Bitcoin people say that PoW is necessary for security and that PoS in Eth will be less secure, and also concentrates wealth and gains on that wealth into the hands of a small group.
- nicbou 4y ago
  Which is telling for a technology that is meant to replace money, something everyone knows how to use. I've been passively following this scene for years and read/watched tons of content about it, but I still wouldn't know how to pay my friend across the room, especially not without an internet connection.
tick_tock_tick 4y ago
Is Ethereum PoS yet? Simple Yes or No. That's what people are complaining about they are years behind on what they promised.
- michaelsbradley 4y ago
  What’s New in Eth2 is a biweekly newsletter that's a good resource for tracking progress toward PoS: https://hackmd.io/@benjaminion/eth2_news https://hackmd.io/@benjaminion/eth2_news From the current edition: Go/no-go decision on doing the Merge or postponing the difficulty bomb to be discussed on the 29th of April [2022] ACD call. If it’s "go" then start merging the existing testnets at 2 week intervals with a view to doing the real thing in July [2022]. ACD call == AllCoreDevs meeting. Here's a summary of the most recent one (includes a link to a recording of the call): https://github.com/ethereum/pm/blob/master/AllCoreDevs-Meetings/Meeting%20134.md https://github.com/ethereum/pm/blob/master/AllCoreDevs-Meeti...
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > Is Ethereum PoS yet? Simple Yes or No. It seems you've given a long answer which can be simplified to "No"
    - michaelsbradley 4y ago
      Along with pointers to current and historical information as to why arriving at PoS has been such a long and interesting road to hoe, while also being an open/source process involving teams and individuals all over the world.
      - 9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
        If the constant delays and made-up ETAs weren’t enough to make you question PoS ever arriving — they should be, really — there are plenty of other reasons. There are a tonne of actors / influencers in the Eth space who do not want PoS to land for their own financial and political reasons. Technical pitfalls and project stewardship can reasonably explain some delay — but years and years of it? And more than one statement that it’s just “months away?” The whole process has a fetid cloud hanging over it.
dmitriid 4y ago
> I keep seeing this "eternal six months away" FUD, but no one wants to admit that it has literally just been postponed again https://twitter.com/TimBeiko/status/1514010098145759232 https://twitter.com/TimBeiko/status/1514010098145759232
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  Postponed would mean the date was officially announced by one of the devs? I've not had time to pay attention much over the past months, but to me that June date was always a silly rumor. Correct me if I'm wrong. End of year is what I heard, but even that isn't set in stone of course and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen till then.
  - michaelsbradley 4y ago
    There will be a go/no-go decision on April 29 (two weeks from now) re: "doing the real thing in July". See my previous comment above.
    - exdsq 4y ago
      Releasing PoS was hard enough on Cardano, can’t imagine the stress on Ethereum with so many moving parts and bad actors
  - pavel_lishin 4y ago
    So it's even worse than the things people called FUD?
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > Postponed would mean the date was officially announced by one of the devs? In true "decentralised fashion" the devs spread their info thin over multiple veues so it's hard to hunt down their statements. But we could take to ethereum.org which previously stated [1] --- start quote --- When's it shipping? ~Q2 2022 This upgrade represents the official switch to proof-of-stake consensus. This eliminates the need for energy-intensive mining, and instead secures the network using staked ether. A truly exciting step in realizing the Ethereum vision – more scalability, security, and sustainability. --- end quote --- Same is still on Consensys: https://consensys.net/knowledge-base/ethereum-2/faq/ https://consensys.net/knowledge-base/ethereum-2/faq/ [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20220202044446/https://ethereum.org/en/upgrades/merge/ http://web.archive.org/web/20220202044446/https://ethereum.o...
sl3232323 4y ago
- ChrisClark 4y ago
  Wow, that's such an elegant argument you have there!

by pshc 4y ago

recursive 4y ago

I understand the arguments about how cryptocurrencies use too much electricity, but I understand none of what you've just said.

pshc 4y ago
I can try to contextualize this... at least explain my understanding of the history. Bitcoin grows popular and its proof of work burns increasing amounts of electricity. Ethereum devs do not want to see Eth go the same way, and prioritize Proof of Stake, which will not require any more waste. The devs sketch out new roadmaps, do research, and make slow but steady progress; software always takes longer than you think. Meanwhile, Bitcoin has completely fossilized for political reasons and basically cannot be improved at this point. Bitcoin maximalists (diehards) recognize Eth as an existential threat and start pushing this meme of PoS being always 6 months away, despite the actual Eth devs never promising such things.
- ryan_lane 4y ago
  It's the Eth people who constantly say it's 6 months away. Bitcoin people say that PoW is necessary for security and that PoS in Eth will be less secure, and also concentrates wealth and gains on that wealth into the hands of a small group.
nicbou 4y ago
Which is telling for a technology that is meant to replace money, something everyone knows how to use. I've been passively following this scene for years and read/watched tons of content about it, but I still wouldn't know how to pay my friend across the room, especially not without an internet connection.

tick_tock_tick 4y ago

Is Ethereum PoS yet? Simple Yes or No. That's what people are complaining about they are years behind on what they promised.

michaelsbradley 4y ago
What’s New in Eth2 is a biweekly newsletter that's a good resource for tracking progress toward PoS: https://hackmd.io/@benjaminion/eth2_news https://hackmd.io/@benjaminion/eth2_news From the current edition: Go/no-go decision on doing the Merge or postponing the difficulty bomb to be discussed on the 29th of April [2022] ACD call. If it’s "go" then start merging the existing testnets at 2 week intervals with a view to doing the real thing in July [2022]. ACD call == AllCoreDevs meeting. Here's a summary of the most recent one (includes a link to a recording of the call): https://github.com/ethereum/pm/blob/master/AllCoreDevs-Meetings/Meeting%20134.md https://github.com/ethereum/pm/blob/master/AllCoreDevs-Meeti...
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > Is Ethereum PoS yet? Simple Yes or No. It seems you've given a long answer which can be simplified to "No"
  - michaelsbradley 4y ago
    Along with pointers to current and historical information as to why arriving at PoS has been such a long and interesting road to hoe, while also being an open/source process involving teams and individuals all over the world.
    - 9935c101ab17a66 4y ago
      If the constant delays and made-up ETAs weren’t enough to make you question PoS ever arriving — they should be, really — there are plenty of other reasons. There are a tonne of actors / influencers in the Eth space who do not want PoS to land for their own financial and political reasons. Technical pitfalls and project stewardship can reasonably explain some delay — but years and years of it? And more than one statement that it’s just “months away?” The whole process has a fetid cloud hanging over it.

dmitriid 4y ago

> I keep seeing this "eternal six months away" FUD, but no one wants to admit that it has literally just been postponed again https://twitter.com/TimBeiko/status/1514010098145759232 https://twitter.com/TimBeiko/status/1514010098145759232

trompetenaccoun 4y ago
Postponed would mean the date was officially announced by one of the devs? I've not had time to pay attention much over the past months, but to me that June date was always a silly rumor. Correct me if I'm wrong. End of year is what I heard, but even that isn't set in stone of course and I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happen till then.
- michaelsbradley 4y ago
  There will be a go/no-go decision on April 29 (two weeks from now) re: "doing the real thing in July". See my previous comment above.
  - exdsq 4y ago
    Releasing PoS was hard enough on Cardano, can’t imagine the stress on Ethereum with so many moving parts and bad actors
- pavel_lishin 4y ago
  So it's even worse than the things people called FUD?
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > Postponed would mean the date was officially announced by one of the devs? In true "decentralised fashion" the devs spread their info thin over multiple veues so it's hard to hunt down their statements. But we could take to ethereum.org which previously stated [1] --- start quote --- When's it shipping? ~Q2 2022 This upgrade represents the official switch to proof-of-stake consensus. This eliminates the need for energy-intensive mining, and instead secures the network using staked ether. A truly exciting step in realizing the Ethereum vision – more scalability, security, and sustainability. --- end quote --- Same is still on Consensys: https://consensys.net/knowledge-base/ethereum-2/faq/ https://consensys.net/knowledge-base/ethereum-2/faq/ [1] http://web.archive.org/web/20220202044446/https://ethereum.org/en/upgrades/merge/ http://web.archive.org/web/20220202044446/https://ethereum.o...

sl3232323 4y ago

ChrisClark 4y ago
Wow, that's such an elegant argument you have there!