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What useful has Ethereum created apart from providing an ever-bloating platform for generation of infinite digital-only tokens? As of 2022 the oracle problem st

What useful has Ethereum created apart from providing an ever-bloating platform for generation of infinite digital-only tokens? As of 2022 the oracle problem still hasn't been solved, so actual decentralized, objective real life object-to-blockchain interaction is impossible. Monero added fully anonymous crypto that is used by most of the dark web. USDT, USDC provided stablecoins that can circumvent what fiat can't. Bitcoin is first mover, largest liquidity, organic distribution, most decentralised and most tested (least chance of bugs compared to other projects). What legitimate use apart from creation of infinite, meaningless tokens has Ethereum provided?

mw888 5y ago
Not an Eth shill but you literally called out Eth’s biggest use case throughout its history and today: where do you think those stablecoins primarily settle? Dai as an algorithmic and decentralized stable coin is also a terribly under rated achievement. Eth has serious problems, as do all proof of work/stake platforms attempting to move around large amounts of data, but it’s not entirely useless in its current state. You seem to have a god critical eye for crypto (as opposed to wholly for or against, or tied to a single project), I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on Saito providing you took the time to grok it.
Stevvo 5y ago
I spent a year working on open source projects through gitcoin.co. I would wake up in the morning, choose an issue from the list, bash out the solution and tests in a few hours, code review after lunch and by the end of the day I would have ~$500 in ETH or DAI sent from Gitcoin's smart contracts to my Ethereum address. It's not really feasible anymore due to high gas fees, but there is a real use case for you.
cetxcz 5y ago
USDT uses Ethereum.
- thinkmassive 5y ago
  It didn't launch on ethereum, and the largest issuance hasn't been on ethereum for a long time https://tether.to/en/transparency https://tether.to/en/transparency
treyhuffine 5y ago
You don't give Ethereum credit for USDT and USDC? Ethereum introduced the concept of decentralized compute resources, in which it was also a first mover. Judging Ethereum in its current state feels like judging the internet in the 1980's and saying it's not a value provider.
- thinkmassive 5y ago
  USDT was originally launched on Bitcoin via OMNI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_(cryptocurrency)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_(cryptocurrency)#Histor...
tootie 5y ago
Reading this blog post kinda flies in the face of crypto being more transparent than fiat. The raw data may be transparent, but the misuse/abuse are incredibly cryptic. And can only be rectified the goodwill of open source code contributors.
- mw888 5y ago
  You are equating Ethereum to crypto, and you are assuming Ethereum’s problems are unsolvable. Please educate yourself or be more specific.
- nicbou 5y ago
  I can't even understand half of what's being said here. I can't imagine the debanked using any of those things, as the evangelists keep promising.
  - zer01 5y ago
    Do you understand how a spark plug works or how a hardware interrupt works within the Linux kernel? I don’t, but people who have specialized in those specific disciplines and spent their time thinking about how these things work have lead to usable cars and usable/better operating systems as a result. USB is a spec that I don’t care how it works, just that it does. I think crypto concepts like BFT, MEV, consensus, etc are advanced concepts for specialists in the crypto space who are building these same sorts of layers of abstraction that people will generally be using in the future. I don’t need to know how a spark plug works to drive my car, and the average person doesn’t need to understand how a physical device triggers hardware interrupts in the Linux kernel to use a keyboard. People also don’t need to understand DNS or BGP to use the internet, because some clever folks built RFCs and open protocols that were adopted and bundled together to create web browsers, routers, and the general internet. Things were also rough around the edges in the early days there too, but have now evolved to be a critical part of today’s world. Traditional mail is still a thing but the obvious winds are blowing more and more to use e-mail for things, not because it’s a fad or has a lot of hype, but because it’s demonstrably better. People here like to throw shade on crypto but there are already useful things (like multisig smart contracts) that are not only unique to crypto and useful today, but imply that there are other new and useful building blocks that need to be realized and developed to unlock more interesting and complex use cases (you can’t have Netflix or e-commerce without DNS and BGP for example, even if the vast majority of users have no idea how it works). People excited about the space (disclaimer: I am excited about the space) see the possibilities based on the building blocks that exist today, not to mention the very real spike in practical cryptographic research that’s being done (zero knowledge proofs as a field of study has been massively accelerated by the cryptocurrency space). People also struggled to see secure real time video calls or online banking as a result of the DNS protocol being developed or the RSA algorithm being created, but some did see the implications and got very excited about that future.
delaaxe 5y ago
> As of 2022 the oracle problem still hasn't been solved What do you mean by that? I thought ChainLink solved that pretty well
- hamilyon2 5y ago
  Read their white paper. Looks like secure computation with extra steps.
- tick_tock_tick 5y ago
  ChainLink just distributes the trust around making it harder too corrupt but in no way solves the issue.
  - delaaxe 5y ago
    Trying to understand by going through this: https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-problem/ https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-proble... Aren't they precisely solving the issue?
    - mypastself 5y ago
      I came away from reading that article with almost no insight into how the problem is purportedly solved. The last section briefly lists a number of security techniques Chainlink uses, adding that these are “just some of [its] many features”, but doesn’t go into much detail. I’m not sure they ever even outright state that this particular network resolves the oracle problem. Are you sure that’s the article you wanted to share?
- polygamous_bat 5y ago
  Chainlink does not solve the oracle problem. In the best case, they put a "price" on fabricating truth in the blockchain world. If the "source of truth" is distributed, what stops somebody from running a worldwide botnet which pretends to be "anonymous chainlink nodes/contributors" and feed false information to the blockchain? Even if there is a price for each node to participate in the consensus mechanism, then you just set up a price which is required before you are allowed to defraud the oracle. How much are you willing to bet on this possibly defraudable oracle?

mw888 5y ago

Not an Eth shill but you literally called out Eth’s biggest use case throughout its history and today: where do you think those stablecoins primarily settle? Dai as an algorithmic and decentralized stable coin is also a terribly under rated achievement. Eth has serious problems, as do all proof of work/stake platforms attempting to move around large amounts of data, but it’s not entirely useless in its current state. You seem to have a god critical eye for crypto (as opposed to wholly for or against, or tied to a single project), I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on Saito providing you took the time to grok it.

Stevvo 5y ago

I spent a year working on open source projects through gitcoin.co. I would wake up in the morning, choose an issue from the list, bash out the solution and tests in a few hours, code review after lunch and by the end of the day I would have ~$500 in ETH or DAI sent from Gitcoin's smart contracts to my Ethereum address. It's not really feasible anymore due to high gas fees, but there is a real use case for you.

cetxcz 5y ago

USDT uses Ethereum.

thinkmassive 5y ago
It didn't launch on ethereum, and the largest issuance hasn't been on ethereum for a long time https://tether.to/en/transparency https://tether.to/en/transparency

treyhuffine 5y ago

You don't give Ethereum credit for USDT and USDC? Ethereum introduced the concept of decentralized compute resources, in which it was also a first mover. Judging Ethereum in its current state feels like judging the internet in the 1980's and saying it's not a value provider.

thinkmassive 5y ago
USDT was originally launched on Bitcoin via OMNI https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_(cryptocurrency)#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_(cryptocurrency)#Histor...

tootie 5y ago

Reading this blog post kinda flies in the face of crypto being more transparent than fiat. The raw data may be transparent, but the misuse/abuse are incredibly cryptic. And can only be rectified the goodwill of open source code contributors.

mw888 5y ago
You are equating Ethereum to crypto, and you are assuming Ethereum’s problems are unsolvable. Please educate yourself or be more specific.
nicbou 5y ago
I can't even understand half of what's being said here. I can't imagine the debanked using any of those things, as the evangelists keep promising.
- zer01 5y ago
  Do you understand how a spark plug works or how a hardware interrupt works within the Linux kernel? I don’t, but people who have specialized in those specific disciplines and spent their time thinking about how these things work have lead to usable cars and usable/better operating systems as a result. USB is a spec that I don’t care how it works, just that it does. I think crypto concepts like BFT, MEV, consensus, etc are advanced concepts for specialists in the crypto space who are building these same sorts of layers of abstraction that people will generally be using in the future. I don’t need to know how a spark plug works to drive my car, and the average person doesn’t need to understand how a physical device triggers hardware interrupts in the Linux kernel to use a keyboard. People also don’t need to understand DNS or BGP to use the internet, because some clever folks built RFCs and open protocols that were adopted and bundled together to create web browsers, routers, and the general internet. Things were also rough around the edges in the early days there too, but have now evolved to be a critical part of today’s world. Traditional mail is still a thing but the obvious winds are blowing more and more to use e-mail for things, not because it’s a fad or has a lot of hype, but because it’s demonstrably better. People here like to throw shade on crypto but there are already useful things (like multisig smart contracts) that are not only unique to crypto and useful today, but imply that there are other new and useful building blocks that need to be realized and developed to unlock more interesting and complex use cases (you can’t have Netflix or e-commerce without DNS and BGP for example, even if the vast majority of users have no idea how it works). People excited about the space (disclaimer: I am excited about the space) see the possibilities based on the building blocks that exist today, not to mention the very real spike in practical cryptographic research that’s being done (zero knowledge proofs as a field of study has been massively accelerated by the cryptocurrency space). People also struggled to see secure real time video calls or online banking as a result of the DNS protocol being developed or the RSA algorithm being created, but some did see the implications and got very excited about that future.

delaaxe 5y ago

> As of 2022 the oracle problem still hasn't been solved What do you mean by that? I thought ChainLink solved that pretty well

hamilyon2 5y ago
Read their white paper. Looks like secure computation with extra steps.
tick_tock_tick 5y ago
ChainLink just distributes the trust around making it harder too corrupt but in no way solves the issue.
- delaaxe 5y ago
  Trying to understand by going through this: https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-problem/ https://blog.chain.link/what-is-the-blockchain-oracle-proble... Aren't they precisely solving the issue?
  - mypastself 5y ago
    I came away from reading that article with almost no insight into how the problem is purportedly solved. The last section briefly lists a number of security techniques Chainlink uses, adding that these are “just some of [its] many features”, but doesn’t go into much detail. I’m not sure they ever even outright state that this particular network resolves the oracle problem. Are you sure that’s the article you wanted to share?
polygamous_bat 5y ago
Chainlink does not solve the oracle problem. In the best case, they put a "price" on fabricating truth in the blockchain world. If the "source of truth" is distributed, what stops somebody from running a worldwide botnet which pretends to be "anonymous chainlink nodes/contributors" and feed false information to the blockchain? Even if there is a price for each node to participate in the consensus mechanism, then you just set up a price which is required before you are allowed to defraud the oracle. How much are you willing to bet on this possibly defraudable oracle?