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I'm not so sure that's true. The logic of both left and right people I've talked to is something like: Western elites are terrible, Ukraine colluded with those
by Veen 5y ago
I'm not so sure that's true. The logic of both left and right people I've talked to is something like: Western elites are terrible, Ukraine colluded with those elites/is their puppet (wanted to join Nato/EU/etc), Russia is opposed to Western elites, and is therefore a positive force. I've talked to many people of both political persuasions and they try to minimize Russian wrongdoing and emphasize Western provocation (poking the bear).
Of course, they have different reasons for disliking western elites, but their arguments end up remarkably similar.
- barbacoa 5y agoJapanese bombing of Pearl Harbor was spurred by America oil embargo on Japan, and 9/11 was spurred by American meddling in the middle east. None of those statements should be necessarily seen as minimizing or justifying those subsequent acts. There is nuance in the world, nothing happens in a vacuum.
- vorpalhex 5y ago> Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor was spurred by America oil embargo on Japan ...and the embargo on Japan was due to it's continuing invasion of China...
- sudosysgen 5y agoSure, which the US didn't oppose as a matter of principle but as a matter of empire.
- vorpalhex 5y agoThe US and the EU repeatedly told Japan to stop it's invasion. Japan did have some cassus belli initially but after several atrocities happened the response grew much louder - specifically after a pastor was killed by a stray bomb and the photograph made it's way back to western audiences with an accounting from his daughter.
- barbacoa 5y agoCorrect. Without American oil imports, Japan was forced to seize Dutch oil production in Indonesia to keep their economy running. That would drag the USA into the war, therefore it was a logical conclusion to strike the USA first. It's not hard to see Russia's action as a logical action to protect their interests. That however is not the same as condoning Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
- Veen 5y agoAs I said: "they try to minimize Russian/Japanese/Islamist wrongdoing and emphasize Western provocation"
- barbacoa 5y ago>>Russia is opposed to Western elites, and is therefore a positive force Ukraine is corrupt and the USA doesn't care about civilians and is acting to turn Ukraine into Russia's next Afghanistan. It is a jump to go from there to saying Russia is good.
- pessimizer 5y agoOr rather that they don't have facts that you can be condemned as a traitor for mentioning.