4 ms·

I don't think the far right or far left media is more "anti-war" than the mainstream media. After all, the NYT is also publishing opeds about how the US should

I don't think the far right or far left media is more "anti-war" than the mainstream media. After all, the NYT is also publishing opeds about how the US shouldn't institute a no-fly zone: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/opinion/no-fly-zone-ukraine-nati-russia.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/25/opinion/no-fly-zone-ukrai... Anti-war is the mainstream opinion in the US from pretty much top to bottom. When I talk about something being pro-Russia or not I am referring to stuff like Hasan saying that Russia's annexation of Crimea was ethical, Nick Fuente's literal cheering for Putin, etc.

nicholasnorris 5y ago
Anti-war might not even be entirely the right word, but it's possible that a more "anti-imperialist" sentiment is growing. Sort of along the lines of the old "world police" critique. A lot of these people are probably both sympathetic to Ukraine, but also not in favor of some countries extending their military and financial influence far beyond their borders. I think Hillary Clinton said in an interview, something along the lines that Russia should be prepared for the West to turn Ukraine into another Afghanistan. Seems like a pretty harsh way to view the people that are supposed to be supported.
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Hillary Clinton, like other neocons, thinks it would be great if Ukraine turned into another Afghanistan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLANOdsNhPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLANOdsNhPg
- lalaland1125 5y ago
  That isn't "anti-imperialism", that's just good old fashioned isolationism. True "anti-imperialism" seems like it would imply some duty to stop imperialism done by non US actors.
  - nicholasnorris 5y ago
    That's where you get into a muddy mess of where to draw the line between "imperialism," and something else. There are different takes on what constitutes imperialism, and whether one State trying to push back on what it perceives as creeping imperialism is legitimate. The argument a lot of people are making, not just Russia or Russians, is that overextension of NATO influence was a major cause for the conflict. This might be something like if the Soviet Union had refused to deescalate military support to Cuba during the missile crisis and the US went ahead with military action there. That's not to say that I personally would agree with US intervention in Cuba, or Russia in Ukraine, just trying to understand the logic that's being played by here.
    - ptr 5y ago
      The “nukes in Cuba” in this situation are democracy, free speech, LGBT rights and other Western principles. Yes, they are a threat to Putin and his system.
      - s1artibartfast 5y ago
        None of which are selling points for the Ukrainian government

nicholasnorris 5y ago

Anti-war might not even be entirely the right word, but it's possible that a more "anti-imperialist" sentiment is growing. Sort of along the lines of the old "world police" critique. A lot of these people are probably both sympathetic to Ukraine, but also not in favor of some countries extending their military and financial influence far beyond their borders. I think Hillary Clinton said in an interview, something along the lines that Russia should be prepared for the West to turn Ukraine into another Afghanistan. Seems like a pretty harsh way to view the people that are supposed to be supported.

pessimizer 5y ago
Hillary Clinton, like other neocons, thinks it would be great if Ukraine turned into another Afghanistan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLANOdsNhPg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLANOdsNhPg
lalaland1125 5y ago
That isn't "anti-imperialism", that's just good old fashioned isolationism. True "anti-imperialism" seems like it would imply some duty to stop imperialism done by non US actors.
- nicholasnorris 5y ago
  That's where you get into a muddy mess of where to draw the line between "imperialism," and something else. There are different takes on what constitutes imperialism, and whether one State trying to push back on what it perceives as creeping imperialism is legitimate. The argument a lot of people are making, not just Russia or Russians, is that overextension of NATO influence was a major cause for the conflict. This might be something like if the Soviet Union had refused to deescalate military support to Cuba during the missile crisis and the US went ahead with military action there. That's not to say that I personally would agree with US intervention in Cuba, or Russia in Ukraine, just trying to understand the logic that's being played by here.
  - ptr 5y ago
    The “nukes in Cuba” in this situation are democracy, free speech, LGBT rights and other Western principles. Yes, they are a threat to Putin and his system.
    - s1artibartfast 5y ago
      None of which are selling points for the Ukrainian government