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Here is how a free market can solve problems like these: Lead pollution in the air damages people's property. The owners of that property can then sue the lead

Here is how a free market can solve problems like these: Lead pollution in the air damages people's property. The owners of that property can then sue the lead emitters for damages. This has practical problems when the externality is very small for each emitter and each damaged party, but that's the principle. Typically modern regulations kills this recourse, since if you've followed the regulations, you can't be sued for it. Then the emitters sooner or later capture the regulator, and things go bad anyway.

KerrAvon 5y ago
We can certainly stipulate how things should work in a fantasyland where everyone behaves rationally and courts produce principled decisions. But that isn't the world where we actually live. And this is where most of capital-L Libertarian ideology falls apart.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  This system has a long track record of working pretty well in the real world. I don't deny there are many unrealistic dreamers on "my" side. But that's endemic across all ideological sides.
  - mcguire 5y ago
    Do you have a source for this long track record? Specifically, dealing with externalities?
  - SamBam 5y ago
    How many times has someone successfully sued for some fractional externality that harms them, and was the suit ever enough to effect change? Even if there are one or two cases, that's hardly a "long track record" compared to the inability of private citizens to sue to enact meaningful change in climate change, asbestos, leaded gas, fracking, polluted oceans, acid rain, deforestation, lead in the water, chemicals in our food supply, etc etc etc.
mcguire 5y ago
"Lead pollution in the air damages people's property. The owners of that property can then sue the lead emitters for damages." Rather difficult to demonstrate any harm to an individual, no? In a case, the damage from lead would be a hypothetical: my child would have had a higher IQ if she weren't exposed to lead, and that exposure is due to its use as a motor fuel.
- BurningFrog 5y ago
  Yes, that is what I meant by the "This has practical problems.." part. CO₂ emissions is the extreme case of this difficulty. Almost everyone contributes a tiny part to the problem, and almost everyone is also a potential victim of it. Because of that, I'm not categorically opposed to regulation handling these difficult situations. But I also note that airplane fuel IS regulated, and that has NOT solved the problem! The best solution to CO₂ emissions is some form of carbon tax, but that has proven politically impossible in most jurisdictions.
wbsss4412 5y ago
Option 1: require long drawn out court cases that may or may not reward sufficient damages to deter the practice even when successful. Option 2: Just pass a law to ban it. > Then the emitters sooner or later capture the regulator, and things go bad anyway. I’m unaware of any evidence that this is the case for leaded gasoline. Sometimes the market just isn’t magic. Solutions that work in practice >> solutions that work in theory.

KerrAvon 5y ago

We can certainly stipulate how things should work in a fantasyland where everyone behaves rationally and courts produce principled decisions. But that isn't the world where we actually live. And this is where most of capital-L Libertarian ideology falls apart.

BurningFrog 5y ago
This system has a long track record of working pretty well in the real world. I don't deny there are many unrealistic dreamers on "my" side. But that's endemic across all ideological sides.
- mcguire 5y ago
  Do you have a source for this long track record? Specifically, dealing with externalities?
- SamBam 5y ago
  How many times has someone successfully sued for some fractional externality that harms them, and was the suit ever enough to effect change? Even if there are one or two cases, that's hardly a "long track record" compared to the inability of private citizens to sue to enact meaningful change in climate change, asbestos, leaded gas, fracking, polluted oceans, acid rain, deforestation, lead in the water, chemicals in our food supply, etc etc etc.

mcguire 5y ago

"Lead pollution in the air damages people's property. The owners of that property can then sue the lead emitters for damages." Rather difficult to demonstrate any harm to an individual, no? In a case, the damage from lead would be a hypothetical: my child would have had a higher IQ if she weren't exposed to lead, and that exposure is due to its use as a motor fuel.

BurningFrog 5y ago
Yes, that is what I meant by the "This has practical problems.." part. CO₂ emissions is the extreme case of this difficulty. Almost everyone contributes a tiny part to the problem, and almost everyone is also a potential victim of it. Because of that, I'm not categorically opposed to regulation handling these difficult situations. But I also note that airplane fuel IS regulated, and that has NOT solved the problem! The best solution to CO₂ emissions is some form of carbon tax, but that has proven politically impossible in most jurisdictions.

wbsss4412 5y ago

Option 1: require long drawn out court cases that may or may not reward sufficient damages to deter the practice even when successful. Option 2: Just pass a law to ban it. > Then the emitters sooner or later capture the regulator, and things go bad anyway. I’m unaware of any evidence that this is the case for leaded gasoline. Sometimes the market just isn’t magic. Solutions that work in practice >> solutions that work in theory.