5 ms·

Yea for sure, it's totally awesome when individuals hold absurd wealth because they never abuse it and we definitely don't have countless examples throughout hi

Yea for sure, it's totally awesome when individuals hold absurd wealth because they never abuse it and we definitely don't have countless examples throughout history of this phenomenon causing harm to society.

FredPret 5y ago
And we definitely don’t have countless examples throughout history that shows the disastrous consequences of not allowing individual economic freedom and all it entails
- throwaway290 5y ago
  Economic freedom is like free speech (and any other freedom, really). It can not be absolute unless everyone behaves in good faith, once you assume you have rogue players who exploit the good faith behavior of others you have to have rules. So you will find literally no place where absolute freedom is practiced, and for good reasons. Sadly, in case of economic freedom a rogue player who has billions can also have political power to lobby against inconvenient to them rules, and ah everyone wants to be on their good side.
- jklinger410 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - FredPret 5y ago
    Your fact-free, example-free, and above all pompous line of argument is an excellent antidote to your own ideas
    - jklinger410 5y ago
      I am not surprised that you are confused by my comment. Do you need me to provide the long list of times that the United States has gone to war with countries not participating in the global capitalist economic system? Or maybe the number of ways that personal wealth is restricted throughout the world? Or how about the number of referendums around limiting personal wealth that have been submitted throughout history? Or what about societies that successfully existed without what you would consider modern capitalism, whose ideas weren't necessarily proved wrong, but were victims of genocidal attacks by other capitalist countries? Or should we discuss how the massive innovation and huge success of the United States, often attributed solely to capitalism, is actually (gasp) more complicated than a simple economic life hack? I'm all ears Fred.
      - FredPret 5y ago
        I have neither the time nor the crayons for this, so I’ll leave you with this very simple thought: Economic system A fought economic system B in a decades-long cold war. System A won, on every level, including the standard of living for poor people. System A, therefore, works better than B. QED.
        jklinger410 5y ago
        You are correct, it is a very simple thought, Fred. I encourage you to try a complicated thought in regards to this topic.
  - julienb_sea 5y ago
    Kindly provide a single example of an alternative to capitalism that was in any way "successful" by metrics vaguely comparable to capitalistic success. No, you cannot point at China, their success over the past 5 decades was entirely a result of privatization and allowing market forces in their country.
    - jklinger410 5y ago
      Japan did not adopt a form of modern capitalism until the 1800s. The Byzantine empire was never capitalist. Ethiopia did not adopt modern capitalism until it was invaded by the west. Ancient Egypt was never a capitalist society. > by metrics vaguely comparable to capitalistic success If you measure by quality of life I'd say it's a dramatic loser. If you unlearn decades of propaganda and realize the technological revolution was not created by simply stealing the value of labor from the worker and siphoning that up to the ruling class, and then combine that with the understanding that global trade controlled by massive banks created the capacity to destroy alternative economic systems, you might start to reveal the truth.

FredPret 5y ago

And we definitely don’t have countless examples throughout history that shows the disastrous consequences of not allowing individual economic freedom and all it entails

throwaway290 5y ago
Economic freedom is like free speech (and any other freedom, really). It can not be absolute unless everyone behaves in good faith, once you assume you have rogue players who exploit the good faith behavior of others you have to have rules. So you will find literally no place where absolute freedom is practiced, and for good reasons. Sadly, in case of economic freedom a rogue player who has billions can also have political power to lobby against inconvenient to them rules, and ah everyone wants to be on their good side.
jklinger410 5y ago
[flagged]
- FredPret 5y ago
  Your fact-free, example-free, and above all pompous line of argument is an excellent antidote to your own ideas
  - jklinger410 5y ago
    I am not surprised that you are confused by my comment. Do you need me to provide the long list of times that the United States has gone to war with countries not participating in the global capitalist economic system? Or maybe the number of ways that personal wealth is restricted throughout the world? Or how about the number of referendums around limiting personal wealth that have been submitted throughout history? Or what about societies that successfully existed without what you would consider modern capitalism, whose ideas weren't necessarily proved wrong, but were victims of genocidal attacks by other capitalist countries? Or should we discuss how the massive innovation and huge success of the United States, often attributed solely to capitalism, is actually (gasp) more complicated than a simple economic life hack? I'm all ears Fred.
    - FredPret 5y ago
      I have neither the time nor the crayons for this, so I’ll leave you with this very simple thought: Economic system A fought economic system B in a decades-long cold war. System A won, on every level, including the standard of living for poor people. System A, therefore, works better than B. QED.
      - jklinger410 5y ago
        You are correct, it is a very simple thought, Fred. I encourage you to try a complicated thought in regards to this topic.
- julienb_sea 5y ago
  Kindly provide a single example of an alternative to capitalism that was in any way "successful" by metrics vaguely comparable to capitalistic success. No, you cannot point at China, their success over the past 5 decades was entirely a result of privatization and allowing market forces in their country.
  - jklinger410 5y ago
    Japan did not adopt a form of modern capitalism until the 1800s. The Byzantine empire was never capitalist. Ethiopia did not adopt modern capitalism until it was invaded by the west. Ancient Egypt was never a capitalist society. > by metrics vaguely comparable to capitalistic success If you measure by quality of life I'd say it's a dramatic loser. If you unlearn decades of propaganda and realize the technological revolution was not created by simply stealing the value of labor from the worker and siphoning that up to the ruling class, and then combine that with the understanding that global trade controlled by massive banks created the capacity to destroy alternative economic systems, you might start to reveal the truth.