4 ms·

In the USA we have due process rights so that the government can't just randomly disappear people for months [1] or forever [2]. Unfortunately some guilty peopl

In the USA we have due process rights so that the government can't just randomly disappear people for months [1] or forever [2]. Unfortunately some guilty people go free when the government fails to prosecute in respect of these rights, but it is the price we pay so that the rulers can't just suppress their crimes and destroy anyone they dislike. In China you can be the son of a powerful official, kill someone with your car in front of everyone, scream “Go ahead and sue me, my father is Li Gang!”, and the government will indeed go to work to suppress witnesses to your misdeeds, even though the incident is already a viral meme on social media [3a]. But I guess you can give them credit for finally charging this kid who murdered someone with his car... 3 months after the fact. [3b] But make sure not to compare Xi to Pooh-Bear, your future will not be bright! [4] [1] https://www.thecut.com/2022/02/the-disappearance-of-peng-shuai-what-we-know.html https://www.thecut.com/2022/02/the-disappearance-of-peng-shu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforced_disappearance#China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enforced_disappearance#China [3a] https://globalvoices.org/2010/10/22/china-my-father-is-li-gang/ https://globalvoices.org/2010/10/22/china-my-father-is-li-ga... [3b] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Gang_incident https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Gang_incident [4] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/china-bans-winnie-the-pooh-film-to-stop-comparisons-to-president-xi https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/07/china-bans-win...

culi 5y ago
Anybody who's ever worked with houseless folks will laugh at the idea that cops can't just pick people up and hold them without any repercussions. In the US you need to be of the right social standing to actually be afforded those "rights". Due process has always been a myth in US history for people who aren't of a certain privileged status. For example, the whole concept of "citizen's arrest" was created in order to let non-cop white people detain black people https://www.jstor.org/stable/26380304 https://www.jstor.org/stable/26380304
- civilized 5y ago
  Unfortunately the most marginalized people in any society are often treated badly. That's different from a society like China's, where anyone can be disappeared for any amount of time with impunity if they offend a powerful person. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-drives-high-profile-disappearances-in-china https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-drives-high-profile-... If you're upset about what was happening in the US during the 1950s, definitely don't learn anything about what was happening in China at that time. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler are all vying in Hell for the title of Most Lethal Human Being Ever.
  - trasz 5y ago
    And you don't find it strange that you trust US media outlets more than you trust Peng Shuai herself?
    - civilized 5y ago
      Yes, Peng Shuai came out to say she was fine, with no explanation for the months of disappearance. She recanted her allegations, again with no detail or explanation as to why she made them against a prominent party official or how exactly her plain words were supposedly misunderstood. Only a child or a 50-center would assume that these things happened without threat or coercion. And she is only the latest in a long list of disappearances of CCP persona non grata, as documented in the links I previously provided.
      - trasz 5y ago
        “Only a child or a 50-center would assume that” someone might disappear from the foreign social media for a few weeks without oppressive regime forcing them to? Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? As for "CCP full of angels" - of course not. I'm just not indoctrinated enough to believe US is any better. There's one fundamental difference though: China is improving.
        civilized 5y ago
        Hmm, you seem to have conveniently omitted the more damning half. Denying her own allegation without any explanation. Why don't you tell us why you believe the CCP is full of angels who would never do such things? Any friends there? > I'm just not indoctrinated enough to believe US is any better. You don't need to be indoctrinated. You're actively ignoring any evidence that is inconvenient for your rosy picture of China. From the CCP's perspective, you're the perfect citizen. They wouldn't even need to censor if the country were full of good obedient citizens like you, who believe what they are supposed to believe and ignore what they are supposed to ignore. > China is improving I believe that as much as I believe Russia is invading Ukraine for its own good.
trasz 5y ago
Here is how being wealthy works in US: https://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/02/justice/delaware-du-pont-rape-case/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/02/justice/delaware-du-pont-... There is a difference though: in China this is changing. As for the Winnie the Pooh urban legend: I guess you never asked yourself how is it possible that Shanghai Disneyland still features Winnie :-)
- civilized 5y ago
  No, the difference is that in America, the news media report on these things which are horrible and embarrassing to our country, so that the people can know and fight to improve things. In China, everything embarrassing to the CCP is instantly censored to present a sanitized reality where all behavior displeasing to the CCP does not exist. Just like how most Russians think Russia is liberating Ukraine in a "special military operation" and the indiscriminately massacring of civilians is airbrushed away. Only criminals censor the media.
  - trasz 5y ago
    >No, the difference is that in America, the news media report on these things which are horrible and embarrassing to our country And nothing changes. Convinced child rapist was let free because he was wealthy and “wouldn’t feel good in prison”. Do you think this was followed by some reform to make sure it doesn’t happen again? >In China, everything embarrassing to the CCP is instantly censored This is obviously false. Talk to someone from China perhaps, or take a look at their media? >Only criminals censor the media. Have you ever heard about gag orders?

culi 5y ago

Anybody who's ever worked with houseless folks will laugh at the idea that cops can't just pick people up and hold them without any repercussions. In the US you need to be of the right social standing to actually be afforded those "rights". Due process has always been a myth in US history for people who aren't of a certain privileged status. For example, the whole concept of "citizen's arrest" was created in order to let non-cop white people detain black people https://www.jstor.org/stable/26380304 https://www.jstor.org/stable/26380304

civilized 5y ago
Unfortunately the most marginalized people in any society are often treated badly. That's different from a society like China's, where anyone can be disappeared for any amount of time with impunity if they offend a powerful person. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-drives-high-profile-disappearances-in-china https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/what-drives-high-profile-... If you're upset about what was happening in the US during the 1950s, definitely don't learn anything about what was happening in China at that time. Mao, Stalin, and Hitler are all vying in Hell for the title of Most Lethal Human Being Ever.
- trasz 5y ago
  And you don't find it strange that you trust US media outlets more than you trust Peng Shuai herself?
  - civilized 5y ago
    Yes, Peng Shuai came out to say she was fine, with no explanation for the months of disappearance. She recanted her allegations, again with no detail or explanation as to why she made them against a prominent party official or how exactly her plain words were supposedly misunderstood. Only a child or a 50-center would assume that these things happened without threat or coercion. And she is only the latest in a long list of disappearances of CCP persona non grata, as documented in the links I previously provided.
    - trasz 5y ago
      “Only a child or a 50-center would assume that” someone might disappear from the foreign social media for a few weeks without oppressive regime forcing them to? Do you realise how ridiculous you sound? As for "CCP full of angels" - of course not. I'm just not indoctrinated enough to believe US is any better. There's one fundamental difference though: China is improving.
      - civilized 5y ago
        Hmm, you seem to have conveniently omitted the more damning half. Denying her own allegation without any explanation. Why don't you tell us why you believe the CCP is full of angels who would never do such things? Any friends there? > I'm just not indoctrinated enough to believe US is any better. You don't need to be indoctrinated. You're actively ignoring any evidence that is inconvenient for your rosy picture of China. From the CCP's perspective, you're the perfect citizen. They wouldn't even need to censor if the country were full of good obedient citizens like you, who believe what they are supposed to believe and ignore what they are supposed to ignore. > China is improving I believe that as much as I believe Russia is invading Ukraine for its own good.

trasz 5y ago

Here is how being wealthy works in US: https://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/02/justice/delaware-du-pont-rape-case/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2014/04/02/justice/delaware-du-pont-... There is a difference though: in China this is changing. As for the Winnie the Pooh urban legend: I guess you never asked yourself how is it possible that Shanghai Disneyland still features Winnie :-)

civilized 5y ago
No, the difference is that in America, the news media report on these things which are horrible and embarrassing to our country, so that the people can know and fight to improve things. In China, everything embarrassing to the CCP is instantly censored to present a sanitized reality where all behavior displeasing to the CCP does not exist. Just like how most Russians think Russia is liberating Ukraine in a "special military operation" and the indiscriminately massacring of civilians is airbrushed away. Only criminals censor the media.
- trasz 5y ago
  >No, the difference is that in America, the news media report on these things which are horrible and embarrassing to our country And nothing changes. Convinced child rapist was let free because he was wealthy and “wouldn’t feel good in prison”. Do you think this was followed by some reform to make sure it doesn’t happen again? >In China, everything embarrassing to the CCP is instantly censored This is obviously false. Talk to someone from China perhaps, or take a look at their media? >Only criminals censor the media. Have you ever heard about gag orders?