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> when was the last time you sent (or received) an e-mail outside of the context of work, or to interact with a company? This morning, a few hours ago. > appl

> when was the last time you sent (or received) an e-mail outside of the context of work, or to interact with a company? This morning, a few hours ago. > apple and google make the phones! my network provider is also a private company, too, they have no requirement to provide me a phone service. No, there are plenty of other phone manufacturers besides Apple and Google. Just as there are plenty of phone service providers, both mobile and VoIP. If they are all blocking/refusing you service, that would be quite a story, and I might change my opinion, but I've never heard of that happening. > millennials (my generation) aren't great at spontaneity in this regard. gen Z are even worse. I'm a older/early millenial (Xennial to some people). I agree with you but I don't see how you'd ever be completely blocked from using a phone. > private social media isn't the problem (although it is a problem). i'm saying that so much of our lives are very tightly embedded with a handful of private companies, and them having control over that isn't a great way to be. I agree with you 100%. The way to regain control is not to use the government to force them to provide a platform to racists, it's to ensure that you disentangle yourself from their systems as much as you can. Make sure you have a plan for what to do if your Whatsapp or iCloud account is banned by an algorithm with no recourse. Are irreversible algorithmic bans the best way for companies to operate? Clearly not, it sucks. And maybe there's room for legal solutions to mandate open appeals processes, etc. But the alternative of forcing companies to give everyone a platform is way worse, IMHO.

foxhill 4y ago
> This morning, a few hours ago. surely you must recognize that you are likely in the minority of e-mail users? > Just as there are plenty of phone service providers two or three, really. and many areas in the US are limited to one or two. > If they are all blocking/refusing you service, that would be quite a story, and I might change my opinion, but I've never heard of that happening. didn't trump's twitter platform get banned from all the common cloud providers? is it that much more ridiculous to think that they would be unable to colo with anyone? to be clear, i'm personally happy that it doesn't exist, and this isn't the same thing. but just because i don't agree with it... i know it's not the same thing as what we're talking about, but i don't think you don't need to squint too hard to see the parallel and the precedent. > but I don't see how you'd ever be completely blocked from using a phone indeed, i'd still be able to use my nokia 3310, and predictive text my way around social life, but it would be an incomplete existence (these days). in any case, you don't need to be blocked from using a phone. you need only be blocked from using the various platforms that people use today.
- cmatthias 4y ago
  > surely you must recognize that you are likely in the minority of e-mail users? No, I don't recognize that. Citation needed. > didn't trump's twitter platform get banned from all the common cloud providers? is it that much more ridiculous to think that they would be unable to colo with anyone? I don't know, but as to your last question, yes, that's ridiculous, as there are thousands of datacenters out there. Besides, Trump's twitter platform is not a person. It's a business with many more resources than the the vast majority of individuals have. It's dangerous to start from the principle that this organization should have the same rights as a natural person. > two or three, really. and many areas in the US are limited to one or two. You're talking about mobile providers. I specifically mentioned mobile and VoIP and you cut that part out. I'm done here as you don't seem to be willing to have an honest discussion.
  - foxhill 4y ago
    > No, I don't recognize that. Citation needed. fair enough. finding data wasn't easy. the best i could get that is somewhat related was this article from 2015 on teenage communication habits, which states that around 6% of teens use e-mail to communicate daily with their friends[1] (making it the least used form of communication). and this is pre-tiktok, so i'd expect this number to have decreased. > Besides, Trump's twitter platform is not a person. indeed, but the people using probably were. not that that's important: constitutionally, corporations have the same protections as people, indeed the US legal fiction of corporate personhood is practically a meme now. from [2]: > Since the Supreme Court's ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2010, upholding the rights of corporations to make unlimited political expenditures under the First Amendment [...] so it appears the supreme court agrees that free-speech protections apply to corporations. > yes, that's ridiculous, as there are thousands of datacenters out there. well then, where is the site now? > I specifically mentioned mobile and VoIP and you cut that part out. apologies, i presumed you understood that the IP in VoIP indicates that an internet connection is required for the voice to go over, and that without a mobile service provider, that could be.. logistically challenging :) > I'm done here as you don't seem to be willing to have an honest discussion. :/ ok then, i guess. [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2015/08/06/teens-technology-and-friendships/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2015/08/06/teens-techno... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

foxhill 4y ago

> This morning, a few hours ago. surely you must recognize that you are likely in the minority of e-mail users? > Just as there are plenty of phone service providers two or three, really. and many areas in the US are limited to one or two. > If they are all blocking/refusing you service, that would be quite a story, and I might change my opinion, but I've never heard of that happening. didn't trump's twitter platform get banned from all the common cloud providers? is it that much more ridiculous to think that they would be unable to colo with anyone? to be clear, i'm personally happy that it doesn't exist, and this isn't the same thing. but just because i don't agree with it... i know it's not the same thing as what we're talking about, but i don't think you don't need to squint too hard to see the parallel and the precedent. > but I don't see how you'd ever be completely blocked from using a phone indeed, i'd still be able to use my nokia 3310, and predictive text my way around social life, but it would be an incomplete existence (these days). in any case, you don't need to be blocked from using a phone. you need only be blocked from using the various platforms that people use today.

cmatthias 4y ago
> surely you must recognize that you are likely in the minority of e-mail users? No, I don't recognize that. Citation needed. > didn't trump's twitter platform get banned from all the common cloud providers? is it that much more ridiculous to think that they would be unable to colo with anyone? I don't know, but as to your last question, yes, that's ridiculous, as there are thousands of datacenters out there. Besides, Trump's twitter platform is not a person. It's a business with many more resources than the the vast majority of individuals have. It's dangerous to start from the principle that this organization should have the same rights as a natural person. > two or three, really. and many areas in the US are limited to one or two. You're talking about mobile providers. I specifically mentioned mobile and VoIP and you cut that part out. I'm done here as you don't seem to be willing to have an honest discussion.
- foxhill 4y ago
  > No, I don't recognize that. Citation needed. fair enough. finding data wasn't easy. the best i could get that is somewhat related was this article from 2015 on teenage communication habits, which states that around 6% of teens use e-mail to communicate daily with their friends[1] (making it the least used form of communication). and this is pre-tiktok, so i'd expect this number to have decreased. > Besides, Trump's twitter platform is not a person. indeed, but the people using probably were. not that that's important: constitutionally, corporations have the same protections as people, indeed the US legal fiction of corporate personhood is practically a meme now. from [2]: > Since the Supreme Court's ruling in Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2010, upholding the rights of corporations to make unlimited political expenditures under the First Amendment [...] so it appears the supreme court agrees that free-speech protections apply to corporations. > yes, that's ridiculous, as there are thousands of datacenters out there. well then, where is the site now? > I specifically mentioned mobile and VoIP and you cut that part out. apologies, i presumed you understood that the IP in VoIP indicates that an internet connection is required for the voice to go over, and that without a mobile service provider, that could be.. logistically challenging :) > I'm done here as you don't seem to be willing to have an honest discussion. :/ ok then, i guess. [1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2015/08/06/teens-technology-and-friendships/ https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/2015/08/06/teens-techno... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood