4 ms·

Regarding tesla, lots of companies survive entirely because of Government Subsidies. Resource extraction from public lands, no bid cost + contracts for defens

by cduzz 5y ago

Regarding tesla, lots of companies survive entirely because of Government Subsidies. Resource extraction from public lands, no bid cost + contracts for defense department projects, last mile monopolies for cable companies. You going to then argue "but we'd have it all better if there were no meddling government!" ? There are plenty of places that have no government and they seem pretty miserable. People (ideally) select other people every interval of time to make important decisions (aka "government"); sometimes those decisions adversely affect some people and help others disproportionately (your job is cutting down trees and 99% of the trees are gone? Well, you may lose your job before cutting down that last 1% because the trees have value as trees instead of lumber; sorry them's the breaks). Life is hard and full of difficult choices. There are winners and losers. It's better for everyone to make decisions by discussion and consensus rather than violence. But free speech is "will the government arrest/fine/murder you for what you say (or don't say)" not "do I have to listen to you blather on when I'd rather not". There's tremendous nuance to "free speech". If I'm a cake maker and you ask me to make a cake saying "Fuck Jewish Space Lasers!" can I say no I'd rather not? I'm not sure. Maybe I've got terms of service already, maybe I'm just a harried cake maker trying to be civil and a good person and I'd rather not be an asshole even by proxy. You could probably switch the message to "Happy anniversary Steve and Paul!" and offend some other set of people. We seem to live in a society where some set of people just want to be rude and uncivil and force us all to watch like we're in a clockwork orange needing programming. Please no, and while you're at it I'd rather you stop pouring garbage into my father in law.

smt88 5y ago
I don't know where all of that came from. My point is just that there's no proof Musk is a better CEO/visionary than thousands of other business leaders. You seem to have constructed a lot of other points that I was not commenting on at all. I agree that many of businesses survive only because of subsidies and that "free speech" does not mean that private entities cannot censor themselves.
- cduzz 5y ago
  Yes... sorry to imply any particular viewpoint on your part. Musk's particular talent, in my view, is his ability to manage exponential growth where there's an extremely narrow set of possibly successful outcomes given a set of constraints. Maybe he sees a way to get twitter back to exponential growth? I don't. I appreciate your nuance, patience, and civility.
- parineum 5y ago
  > My point is just that there's no proof Musk is a better CEO/visionary than thousands of other business leaders. The objective measure of a business leader's success seems pretty obviously the value of their businesses, is it not?
  - smt88 5y ago
    No. Leaders are a small factor in the success of a business. Other, bigger factors usually include: - luck/timing - investor enthusiasm (longer runway) - regulatory environment - early hires - later hires etc.
    - parineum 5y ago
      Ok. Do we just dismiss all business success then? Is there no way to understand the effectiveness of business men? Like I said, the objective of business is to make money. One guy made more money than anyone else. There's also a lot of luck in sports but the team with the most wins at the end of the season is the best team in the regular season.
      - smt88 5y ago
        > Do we just dismiss all business success then? No, we just don't attribute it to a single man with an incredibly inconsistent track record. > Like I said, the objective of business is to make money. One guy made more money than anyone else. Tesla is an unusually unsuccessful company when compared to other public companies that have existed for the same amount of time. Musk is wealthy because of his incessant promises/lies about Tesla, not because the business is making so much money. Arguably, his stubbornness against learning the lessons of 100 years of vehicle manufacturing is holding Tesla back. > There's also a lot of luck in sports but the team with the most wins at the end of the season is the best team in the regular season. This analogy is ridiculous. Sports teams compete in tightly-controlled environments. Even then, we attribute some success to coaching, ownership, luck of the schedule, etc. But even if we accept the analogy, Musk's "team" has not scored the most points.

by cduzz 5y ago

smt88 5y ago

I don't know where all of that came from. My point is just that there's no proof Musk is a better CEO/visionary than thousands of other business leaders. You seem to have constructed a lot of other points that I was not commenting on at all. I agree that many of businesses survive only because of subsidies and that "free speech" does not mean that private entities cannot censor themselves.

cduzz 5y ago
Yes... sorry to imply any particular viewpoint on your part. Musk's particular talent, in my view, is his ability to manage exponential growth where there's an extremely narrow set of possibly successful outcomes given a set of constraints. Maybe he sees a way to get twitter back to exponential growth? I don't. I appreciate your nuance, patience, and civility.
parineum 5y ago
> My point is just that there's no proof Musk is a better CEO/visionary than thousands of other business leaders. The objective measure of a business leader's success seems pretty obviously the value of their businesses, is it not?
- smt88 5y ago
  No. Leaders are a small factor in the success of a business. Other, bigger factors usually include: - luck/timing - investor enthusiasm (longer runway) - regulatory environment - early hires - later hires etc.
  - parineum 5y ago
    Ok. Do we just dismiss all business success then? Is there no way to understand the effectiveness of business men? Like I said, the objective of business is to make money. One guy made more money than anyone else. There's also a lot of luck in sports but the team with the most wins at the end of the season is the best team in the regular season.
    - smt88 5y ago
      > Do we just dismiss all business success then? No, we just don't attribute it to a single man with an incredibly inconsistent track record. > Like I said, the objective of business is to make money. One guy made more money than anyone else. Tesla is an unusually unsuccessful company when compared to other public companies that have existed for the same amount of time. Musk is wealthy because of his incessant promises/lies about Tesla, not because the business is making so much money. Arguably, his stubbornness against learning the lessons of 100 years of vehicle manufacturing is holding Tesla back. > There's also a lot of luck in sports but the team with the most wins at the end of the season is the best team in the regular season. This analogy is ridiculous. Sports teams compete in tightly-controlled environments. Even then, we attribute some success to coaching, ownership, luck of the schedule, etc. But even if we accept the analogy, Musk's "team" has not scored the most points.