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Europe and Australia have forever ruined me with their standard 4 weeks of vacation time. I can't fathom ever going back to anything less.
by ajtaylor 15y ago
Europe and Australia have forever ruined me with their standard 4 weeks of vacation time. I can't fathom ever going back to anything less.
- wgx 15y agoTrue. The 'standard' in France is 5 weeks.
- johnyzee 15y agoSix weeks here in Denmark and a maximum work week of 37 hours. You have to wonder how we ever get anything done here...
- toyg 15y agoProductivity and long hours are inversely proportional, in my book.
- ajtaylor 15y agoHaving the time to take off, and also the cultural push to take it all, makes a huge difference in productivity from my perspective.
- bmj 15y agoOut of curiosity, is there much of a start-up culture there? If so, do founders (and first employees) adhere to the same guidelines? At least here in the U.S., founding/working at a start-up basically assumes long-ish hours.
- johnyzee 15y agoNo, our country is notoriously lacking in entrepreneurship, make of that what you will. We do still manage to have a pretty good economic output and some business success stories though, so there might be something to be said for working fewer hours.
- bmj 15y agoYeah, I wasn't calling all Danes lazy--just curious if a notoriously overworked sub-culture might exist there.
- jacobr 15y agoSweden has 5 weeks of vacation and a 40 hour standard work week, and pretty successful companies such as Spotify, Skype, Voddler, SoundCloud, Flattr, etc, were founded here. I doubt most of those founders only worked 40 hour work weeks though, as an entrepreneur you decide your own hours, and overtime for regular employees is not uncommon. It probably varies a lot depending on company culture. A friend working at a startup recently got hi-5's from the bosses when he said he had worked 11 hours a day the entire previous week, no talk about taking compensation leave to rest or anything like that. At my company (not a startup) an 11 hour day would be pretty extreme, and if my boss was aware he would probably insist I come in late the following day.
- mark-r 15y agoOld joke: "Being a founder means you can work half-days if you want. The best part is you get to choose which 12 hours that is."
- felipemnoa 15y agoAwesome!
- Bootvis 15y agoI think the the start up culture is less prevalent here in the Netherlands than in SV but it certainly exists. From my personal experience I can say these guidelines are not strictly adhered. The young, university educated people I hang out with all work more then 40 hours and take about 20 vacation days and work 40-60 hours, more if necessary. However I think direct comparison is pretty hard. What does count towards the total amount worked? For example including social drinks in their total biasing the amount upwards.
- EmployedRussian 15y agoRelated: http://steveblank.com/2011/10/10/nokia-as-%E2%80%9Che-who-must-not-be-named%E2%80%9D-and-the-helsinki-spring/ http://steveblank.com/2011/10/10/nokia-as-%E2%80%9Che-who-mu... "Nanny-Culture, Lack of Risk Taking, Not Sharing What makes Finland such a wonderful place to live and raise a family may ultimately be what kills it as a startup hub."
- mhd 15y agoI've looked at the European statistics a while ago, and the average working hours are pretty much the same wherever you go, regardless of what's the maximum per week, how many vacation days you get and how many holidays the country has… And I think the general first-world deviation isn't that big either, apart from the Koreans (and to a minor degree, Americans).
- ams6110 15y agoSix weeks is not uncommon in the USA if you are in higher ed.
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- cowmix 15y agoReally? In my experience I have almost NEVER seen six weeks for any employee unless they were taking a sabbatical.
- dasp 15y agoWhen we talk about vacation weeks, we mean sets of 5 working days, not 7. Right? So e.g. 2 week vacation == 10 work days off.
- henrikschroder 15y agoYes.
- syntaxfree 15y agoYes, but vacation = 10 work days off + weekends and holidays, right?
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- reinhardt 15y agoYou sure the legal minimum is six weeks? Just got hired and my contract says five weeks paid holiday (sorry can't disclose the company name).
- johnyzee 15y agoI just checked and you are right, it is actually five weeks. Sorry about that. (I have my own business so the rules don't apply to me. Let's just say I have grounds for an epic lawsuit against myself :))
- jrockway 15y agoFor me, it's hard to make even 4 weeks work when I have to count programming conferences as vacation. My ideal job would offer me twice that vacation (or pay for 4 conferences a year, their choice). So far, it seems nobody will do this in the US. (And you wonder why people are always posting to HN about how they can't hire anyone. The problem is not that people don't want to work for you. The problem is that you can't afford them.)
- ajtaylor 15y agoI've never had to use vacation time for conferences, but then again I only go to one conference a year. Here's hoping my Aussie employer bucks that trend!
- toyg 15y agoAt Oracle UK I used to get up to 42 days, of which 10 could roll over to the following year. We were periodically overworked and under-compensated anyway (which is why I left). Our US colleagues hated were really envious.
- jdietrich 15y agoThe legal minimum in the UK is now 5.6 weeks; That's still amongst the lowest in Europe. I simply cannot comprehend how even the best paid workers in America expect less holiday than the lowest-paid European labourers.
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- jrockway 15y agoThe reason is because the market doesn't demand vacation time. We get paid more and have less taxes, though.
- vidarh 15y agoRegarding income, it varies greatly: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income As for taxes, I'm Norwegian, live in the UK and looked into moving to California. At my income level taxes would end up within 2-3 percentage point of each other regardless of which of the three places I'd live. Difference being I'd get far more services for my tax money in the UK or Norway. There certainly are places in the US where you'd pay far less taxes than in almost all of Europe, but far from everywhere.
- michaelochurch 15y agoThis is when most people realize that the U.S. is a third-world country. If not that, it's when they go to the doctor in France and ask about billing and get a funny stare.
- filutek 15y agoLook at the bright side: it is still the richest third world country, at least until Wall Street casino wrecks it for good...
- chadmalik 15y agoYeah but since workers don't really see that wealth whats the point? Should your average US citizen who gets weeks less in vacation, has to deal with the idiotic HMO system, etc. celebrate because "our billionaires have more money"???