8 ms·

> I would say rather that HN readers are blinded by their own technical abilities, so much so that they think they are right when it comes to social or economi

by bb88 5y ago

> I would say rather that HN readers are blinded by their own technical abilities, so much so that they think they are right when it comes to social or economic ones. I agree with you on that. Never mind the money laundering, the criminal extortion, the unfettered grift, the ponzi schemes, the lack of regulation, smart contracts which aren't, securities sold in exchanges that aren't secure, the gross misappropriation of other's work making profit in NFT's as genius level crypto godhood, and the never ending supply of pretzel logic to convince others that while 90% of it is all shit, the 10% that isn't justifies crypto's entire existence. Is that because they're blinded by their own technical abilities? Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck before the regulator's swoop in? I don't see you addressing this in your post, so I thought I'd ask.

RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago
> Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck before the regulator's swoop in I don't know who the "they" you're referring to is, but I'm pretty sure the people who are really into NFT's actually believe in it. My guess is there's still more scammers than not, but they remind me of card traders. You can laugh at them all day, but some of those pokemon cards are worth a lot of money. I don't think they think its a fraud, they like the feeling of owning that NFT. So getting back to it, "realize its all a fraud", that's already poising the well before you ask the question. It would actually have to be one(a fraud) for someone to "realize" that it is. Otherwise you need to talk objectively and work your question from the standpoint that "NFT's/crypto is a fraud" is merely an opinion and not a hidden fact that needs to be realized.
- bb88 5y ago
  Hi, thanks for responding. What do they "like" about holding an NFT? They don't own the copyright usually, and they also don't own the original. Do they like seeing their name as the owner on some website? Because we can do that with credit cards and databases and html. If the well has been poisoned already, asking someone for proof of the poisoned well seems silly when all you have to do is look in and take a whiff. This is the kind of pretzel people try to logic themselves out of.
  - yellowapple 5y ago
    > What do they "like" about holding an NFT? What do they like about holding Joe Montana's rookie card? Or a first-edition Charizard? Do they like having the physical card? Because we can do that with cardstock and inkjet printers. It ain't my cup of tea in any case, but it also ain't my place to judge them for it or interrogate their motivations. If they want to collect Yu-gi-oh cards or bored monkey NFTs, power to 'em.
    - bb88 5y ago
      Sure, but certain people also like holding things like CSAM, which we as a society agree are more destructive to society as a whole. So if collecting doesn't involve adding to the global warming crisis, I'd be much more okay with it.
      - yellowapple 5y ago
        > Sure, but certain people also like holding things like CSAM And if holding an NFT (especially on a proof-of-stake blockchain, wherein the carbon footprint is negligible) was in any way comparable to holding child porn, then maybe that'd be a valid point.
        bb88 5y ago
        Etherium just pushed back their proof-of-stake transformation again. It's reading more like vaporware than actual software delivery.
        yellowapple 5y ago
        And there are a lot more NFT-capable proof-of-stake cryptocurrencies out there than just Ethereum.
  - RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago
    I have never owned an NFT so I can't necessarily relate specifically on that front, but I do own bitcoin and ethereum. When it comes to ownership of digital assets/property obviously you can't own the jpeg picture, or the image, or the blockchain that hosts the information since they can be endlessly copied. But you do own the rights of the keys to make any changes regarding the objects you control to the blockchain. No one else has that power to make changes to the portion of the blockchain that you own the keys to. This is the aspect of ownership that matters. Same thing with credit cards and databases. Those are centralized databases owned and operated by a central organization. When it comes to blockchain technology, to make entries regarding the portions of the blockchain that you control, no one else can make changes to that portion of the blockchain without the keys. This is the aspect of ownership that makes digital assets ownable. The ability to control the asset that no one else who doesn't own it can. Look, I can't speak for ownership of NFT's, but to be honest, you probably can't either. Your entering the stage with a pitchfork and torch trying to hate it before you've even tried to see what its about. I don't think it has anything at all to do with seeing their name on some website, its about ownership. > proof of the poisoned well seems silly when all you have to do is look in and take a whiff. You're not making a lot of sense here. Maybe you don't know what "poisoning the well" means. poising the well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well > is a type of informal fallacy where adverse information about a target is preemptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing something that the target person is about to say. Again, we don't know that NFT's are a fraud, so to say "Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck" asserts the question from the standpoint that they are, when we can't know that. You are coming to the stage proclaiming the New England Patriots have won the Superbowl when the Superbowl has yet to start. That's all I'm saying. That to me sounds more like the pretzel logic.

by bb88 5y ago

RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago

> Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck before the regulator's swoop in I don't know who the "they" you're referring to is, but I'm pretty sure the people who are really into NFT's actually believe in it. My guess is there's still more scammers than not, but they remind me of card traders. You can laugh at them all day, but some of those pokemon cards are worth a lot of money. I don't think they think its a fraud, they like the feeling of owning that NFT. So getting back to it, "realize its all a fraud", that's already poising the well before you ask the question. It would actually have to be one(a fraud) for someone to "realize" that it is. Otherwise you need to talk objectively and work your question from the standpoint that "NFT's/crypto is a fraud" is merely an opinion and not a hidden fact that needs to be realized.

bb88 5y ago
Hi, thanks for responding. What do they "like" about holding an NFT? They don't own the copyright usually, and they also don't own the original. Do they like seeing their name as the owner on some website? Because we can do that with credit cards and databases and html. If the well has been poisoned already, asking someone for proof of the poisoned well seems silly when all you have to do is look in and take a whiff. This is the kind of pretzel people try to logic themselves out of.
- yellowapple 5y ago
  > What do they "like" about holding an NFT? What do they like about holding Joe Montana's rookie card? Or a first-edition Charizard? Do they like having the physical card? Because we can do that with cardstock and inkjet printers. It ain't my cup of tea in any case, but it also ain't my place to judge them for it or interrogate their motivations. If they want to collect Yu-gi-oh cards or bored monkey NFTs, power to 'em.
  - bb88 5y ago
    Sure, but certain people also like holding things like CSAM, which we as a society agree are more destructive to society as a whole. So if collecting doesn't involve adding to the global warming crisis, I'd be much more okay with it.
    - yellowapple 5y ago
      > Sure, but certain people also like holding things like CSAM And if holding an NFT (especially on a proof-of-stake blockchain, wherein the carbon footprint is negligible) was in any way comparable to holding child porn, then maybe that'd be a valid point.
      - bb88 5y ago
        Etherium just pushed back their proof-of-stake transformation again. It's reading more like vaporware than actual software delivery.
        yellowapple 5y ago
        And there are a lot more NFT-capable proof-of-stake cryptocurrencies out there than just Ethereum.
- RedBeetDeadpool 5y ago
  I have never owned an NFT so I can't necessarily relate specifically on that front, but I do own bitcoin and ethereum. When it comes to ownership of digital assets/property obviously you can't own the jpeg picture, or the image, or the blockchain that hosts the information since they can be endlessly copied. But you do own the rights of the keys to make any changes regarding the objects you control to the blockchain. No one else has that power to make changes to the portion of the blockchain that you own the keys to. This is the aspect of ownership that matters. Same thing with credit cards and databases. Those are centralized databases owned and operated by a central organization. When it comes to blockchain technology, to make entries regarding the portions of the blockchain that you control, no one else can make changes to that portion of the blockchain without the keys. This is the aspect of ownership that makes digital assets ownable. The ability to control the asset that no one else who doesn't own it can. Look, I can't speak for ownership of NFT's, but to be honest, you probably can't either. Your entering the stage with a pitchfork and torch trying to hate it before you've even tried to see what its about. I don't think it has anything at all to do with seeing their name on some website, its about ownership. > proof of the poisoned well seems silly when all you have to do is look in and take a whiff. You're not making a lot of sense here. Maybe you don't know what "poisoning the well" means. poising the well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well > is a type of informal fallacy where adverse information about a target is preemptively presented to an audience, with the intention of discrediting or ridiculing something that the target person is about to say. Again, we don't know that NFT's are a fraud, so to say "Or do they realize its all a fraud as well and trying to make a quick buck" asserts the question from the standpoint that they are, when we can't know that. You are coming to the stage proclaiming the New England Patriots have won the Superbowl when the Superbowl has yet to start. That's all I'm saying. That to me sounds more like the pretzel logic.