5 ms·

Ask HN: Who has given up looking for work?

16 points by pmoriarty 5y ago

smt88 5y ago
This is the best jobs market, especially for tech workers, in our lifetimes -- among the best in history. I'm not sure why anyone would give up looking for work unless they just prefer to retire.
- jimbob45 5y ago
  I clicked into this thread hoping OP expounded on their struggles because I also find the current job market to be white-hot. Even I, a veritable moron, was able to get a job - one that was far better than what I deserved.
  - gcheong 5y ago
    It's a market, so value is simply set by supply and demand - not necessarily rationality. So you got exactly what you deserved :)
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  Take a look at the first few pages of top posts of all time on r/jobs[1]. They are filled with threads bemoaning how awful work is these days and how hard it is to find a job. Some sample thread titles: "A 9-5 job that pays a living is now a luxury"[2] "America is not lacking in skilled employees, America is lacking in companies willing to hire and train people in entry level roles"[3] "3 to 5 years is NOT entry level"[4] "Employers this is why you aren't getting any employees."[5] "Job Hunting again, and it sucks. Please have all Certifications, a degree in at least 3 fields, and 20 years for this internship"[6] And many, many more threads along those lines. Whether or not these complaints reflect the reality of the job marketplace as a whole, it's clear that a lot of people are super frustrated and dejected, and it's not surprising to me in the least that some (many?) would give up altogether. Some people who work in tech and rolling in dough are completely out of touch with how tough it is for millions of people outside of tech and some other very in-demand fields. That's not to mention depression and burnout, which even those in in-demand fields are not immune to. [1] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/top/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/top/ (make sure to select of "all time") [2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/obq9ew/a_95_job_that_pays_a_living_is_now_a_luxury/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/obq9ew/a_95_job_that_... [3] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/jo6lc7/america_is_not_lacking_in_skilled_employees/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/jo6lc7/america_is_not... [4] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pkfho0/3_to_5_years_is_not_entry_level/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pkfho0/3_to_5_years_i... [5] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pde5ow/employers_this_is_why_you_arent_getting_any/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pde5ow/employers_this... [6] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/m846a0/job_hunting_again_and_it_sucks_please_have_all/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/m846a0/job_hunting_ag...
  - smt88 5y ago
    Reddit isn't representative of anything. People with good jobs aren't on reddit bemoaning their joblessness. It's a bad sample. Show actual data to back up your hypothesis.
    - gcheong 5y ago
      There are a lot of jobs, and a lot of jobs have been added recently for sure. That doesn't make them good jobs. Where's your data for that?
- FactKnower69 5y ago
  Only for tech workers. ONLY for tech workers. Yes, I was able to secure a job with >$300k TC with 4 years of experience a few months ago, but friends of mine with essential jobs where they perform actual labor (the kind society would fall apart in a week without) are still making $10-15/hr. The minimum wage is STILL $7.25. The minimum cash wage for tipped jobs (rife with wage theft) is STILL $2.13 an hour. I'm serious. $2.13. Look it up. Meanwhile a crumbling 2BR single family home is $800k and insulin is $300 a vial.
  - pmoriarty 5y ago
    "friends of mine with essential jobs where they perform actual labor (the kind society would fall apart in a week without) are still making $10-15/hr" Not only that, but a lot of these jobs are ones where these awfully-paid workers have to risk their lives (especially during the height of the COVID pandemic, before the vaccines, when being on the front lines meant risk of death). If they don't risk their lives many of them risk their health and sanity to a much greater degree than people in much cushier jobs with much higher compensation. They also face greater job insecurity, because they're seen as completely replaceable cogs, maltreated at will and fired when no longer useful. Why aren't more people eager to get such shitty jobs?
    - ironmagma 5y ago
      An interesting question is why more people aren't eager to quit such shitty jobs. If you're going to get fired anyway, you may as well quit. The number of open jobs to compete for you is not low. That said, they aren't doing great at competing for you, so maybe that answers the question.
      - pmoriarty 5y ago
        "An interesting question is why more people aren't eager to quit such shitty jobs. If you're going to get fired anyway, you may as well quit." A few reasons: First, they can't afford to quit. Many people in low-paid jobs are living paycheck to paycheck and have to feed their kids and pay their bills, so can't afford to quit to find another job (and are too busy to look while working). Second, there might not be any better options in their area. Third, inertia, fear of change, exhaustion, and depression, which make doing things that take risk and initiative difficult.
- yellowapple 5y ago
  It's a fantastic market for tech workers who already have experience. It's an abysmal market for just about everyone else.
givesuponwork 5y ago
I am a 24 year old in the United States. In 2020, I graduated with an Associate’s degree in Software & Web Development from a small technical community college. Since then, I have applied to hundreds of dev jobs and other tech related jobs. Out of the hundreds of applications I’ve put in, I’ve had a total of two interviews. My first interview was with a very small web development company with connections to some of the professors at the community college I attended. They offered me an unpaid internship which I wasn’t interested in because I am not willing to work for free. I got my second interview thanks entirely to nepotism; my mother sells software made by the company. I was applying for a software engineer position which I quickly realized I was woefully unprepared for and, if I’m being completely honest, had no business applying for in the first place. After failing to answer a couple LeetCode questions on obscure topics I had never seen before, I withdrew my application in embarrassment and haven’t applied to a job since. My self esteem is non-existent and I feel like I’ve wasted most of my life at this point striving to be someone I’m not meant to be. I want to solve interesting problems and do great things and have a place in this world but it feels like there’s just no space for someone like me. What’s wrong with me?
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  I have worked in software dev since I did a data processing job for my uncle when I was 16. I have had all sorts of misadventures such as partnering with a salesperson who couldn't sell, working at a place where I had a dark triad supervisor (who claimed to have supervised both Linus Torvalds and Dave Cutler at some point), running up $80k of debt on my home equity loan (now paid) and really pissing off my wife, etc. I also got a PhD in theoretical physics and people would say "that's great, it proves you are smart" but it can be a scarlet letter if people think you are overqualified or aren't going to take the job seriously. I've had some times when I was really depressed and in despair about getting my next job. I've also had time when recruiters were fighting each other to talk to me. When I was about 40 I told somebody at the gym that I might as well be retired, but I've also had great pleasure working for big companies, small companies, startups and established companies not to mention myself. There was a time when I was despair about job interviews, I came across this guy https://job-interview-answers.com/job-interview-tips/about-bob-firestone/ https://job-interview-answers.com/job-interview-tips/about-b... I can recommend what he is selling because it turned around my attitude.

16 points by pmoriarty 5y ago

This is the best jobs market, especially for tech workers, in our lifetimes -- among the best in history. I'm not sure why anyone would give up looking for work unless they just prefer to retire.

jimbob45 5y ago
I clicked into this thread hoping OP expounded on their struggles because I also find the current job market to be white-hot. Even I, a veritable moron, was able to get a job - one that was far better than what I deserved.
- gcheong 5y ago
  It's a market, so value is simply set by supply and demand - not necessarily rationality. So you got exactly what you deserved :)
pmoriarty 5y ago
Take a look at the first few pages of top posts of all time on r/jobs[1]. They are filled with threads bemoaning how awful work is these days and how hard it is to find a job. Some sample thread titles: "A 9-5 job that pays a living is now a luxury"[2] "America is not lacking in skilled employees, America is lacking in companies willing to hire and train people in entry level roles"[3] "3 to 5 years is NOT entry level"[4] "Employers this is why you aren't getting any employees."[5] "Job Hunting again, and it sucks. Please have all Certifications, a degree in at least 3 fields, and 20 years for this internship"[6] And many, many more threads along those lines. Whether or not these complaints reflect the reality of the job marketplace as a whole, it's clear that a lot of people are super frustrated and dejected, and it's not surprising to me in the least that some (many?) would give up altogether. Some people who work in tech and rolling in dough are completely out of touch with how tough it is for millions of people outside of tech and some other very in-demand fields. That's not to mention depression and burnout, which even those in in-demand fields are not immune to. [1] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/top/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/top/ (make sure to select of "all time") [2] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/obq9ew/a_95_job_that_pays_a_living_is_now_a_luxury/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/obq9ew/a_95_job_that_... [3] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/jo6lc7/america_is_not_lacking_in_skilled_employees/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/jo6lc7/america_is_not... [4] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pkfho0/3_to_5_years_is_not_entry_level/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pkfho0/3_to_5_years_i... [5] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pde5ow/employers_this_is_why_you_arent_getting_any/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/pde5ow/employers_this... [6] - https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/m846a0/job_hunting_again_and_it_sucks_please_have_all/ https://old.reddit.com/r/jobs/comments/m846a0/job_hunting_ag...
- smt88 5y ago
  Reddit isn't representative of anything. People with good jobs aren't on reddit bemoaning their joblessness. It's a bad sample. Show actual data to back up your hypothesis.
  - gcheong 5y ago
    There are a lot of jobs, and a lot of jobs have been added recently for sure. That doesn't make them good jobs. Where's your data for that?
FactKnower69 5y ago
Only for tech workers. ONLY for tech workers. Yes, I was able to secure a job with >$300k TC with 4 years of experience a few months ago, but friends of mine with essential jobs where they perform actual labor (the kind society would fall apart in a week without) are still making $10-15/hr. The minimum wage is STILL $7.25. The minimum cash wage for tipped jobs (rife with wage theft) is STILL $2.13 an hour. I'm serious. $2.13. Look it up. Meanwhile a crumbling 2BR single family home is $800k and insulin is $300 a vial.
- pmoriarty 5y ago
  "friends of mine with essential jobs where they perform actual labor (the kind society would fall apart in a week without) are still making $10-15/hr" Not only that, but a lot of these jobs are ones where these awfully-paid workers have to risk their lives (especially during the height of the COVID pandemic, before the vaccines, when being on the front lines meant risk of death). If they don't risk their lives many of them risk their health and sanity to a much greater degree than people in much cushier jobs with much higher compensation. They also face greater job insecurity, because they're seen as completely replaceable cogs, maltreated at will and fired when no longer useful. Why aren't more people eager to get such shitty jobs?
  - ironmagma 5y ago
    An interesting question is why more people aren't eager to quit such shitty jobs. If you're going to get fired anyway, you may as well quit. The number of open jobs to compete for you is not low. That said, they aren't doing great at competing for you, so maybe that answers the question.
    - pmoriarty 5y ago
      "An interesting question is why more people aren't eager to quit such shitty jobs. If you're going to get fired anyway, you may as well quit." A few reasons: First, they can't afford to quit. Many people in low-paid jobs are living paycheck to paycheck and have to feed their kids and pay their bills, so can't afford to quit to find another job (and are too busy to look while working). Second, there might not be any better options in their area. Third, inertia, fear of change, exhaustion, and depression, which make doing things that take risk and initiative difficult.
yellowapple 5y ago
It's a fantastic market for tech workers who already have experience. It's an abysmal market for just about everyone else.

givesuponwork 5y ago

I am a 24 year old in the United States. In 2020, I graduated with an Associate’s degree in Software & Web Development from a small technical community college. Since then, I have applied to hundreds of dev jobs and other tech related jobs. Out of the hundreds of applications I’ve put in, I’ve had a total of two interviews. My first interview was with a very small web development company with connections to some of the professors at the community college I attended. They offered me an unpaid internship which I wasn’t interested in because I am not willing to work for free. I got my second interview thanks entirely to nepotism; my mother sells software made by the company. I was applying for a software engineer position which I quickly realized I was woefully unprepared for and, if I’m being completely honest, had no business applying for in the first place. After failing to answer a couple LeetCode questions on obscure topics I had never seen before, I withdrew my application in embarrassment and haven’t applied to a job since. My self esteem is non-existent and I feel like I’ve wasted most of my life at this point striving to be someone I’m not meant to be. I want to solve interesting problems and do great things and have a place in this world but it feels like there’s just no space for someone like me. What’s wrong with me?

PaulHoule 5y ago
I have worked in software dev since I did a data processing job for my uncle when I was 16. I have had all sorts of misadventures such as partnering with a salesperson who couldn't sell, working at a place where I had a dark triad supervisor (who claimed to have supervised both Linus Torvalds and Dave Cutler at some point), running up $80k of debt on my home equity loan (now paid) and really pissing off my wife, etc. I also got a PhD in theoretical physics and people would say "that's great, it proves you are smart" but it can be a scarlet letter if people think you are overqualified or aren't going to take the job seriously. I've had some times when I was really depressed and in despair about getting my next job. I've also had time when recruiters were fighting each other to talk to me. When I was about 40 I told somebody at the gym that I might as well be retired, but I've also had great pleasure working for big companies, small companies, startups and established companies not to mention myself. There was a time when I was despair about job interviews, I came across this guy https://job-interview-answers.com/job-interview-tips/about-bob-firestone/ https://job-interview-answers.com/job-interview-tips/about-b... I can recommend what he is selling because it turned around my attitude.