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He did mention that he would never care to change his behavior and had two reasons to continue doing it. I guess that doesn't mean it's the hill he would go to

by gleenn 5y ago

He did mention that he would never care to change his behavior and had two reasons to continue doing it. I guess that doesn't mean it's the hill he would go to die on. I do struggle with the same thing, at what point is it something that's no longer a conversation, you should just change because the other person decided they cared enough about it. Having the wife end a marriage over it also seems ridiculous. If people can't come to realize they are asking for something silly but it's a big deal to them, that seems like that partner's problem. If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time?

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago
> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? This is my question, and i would like to hear from OP, married 33+ years, on his attitude about this.
- landryraccoon 5y ago
  > If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? Is the implication here that your spouse views their marriage as a game they need to “win”, and saying “this is important” are the magic words they need to say to win? Or are they sincerely trying to compromise and saying “I’m trying to meet you halfway but this is genuinely important to me”?
- llbeansandrice 5y ago
  This is an extreme example/edge case and if that's truly the case you are either not participating in good faith or would likely benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy. You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory where your spouse is another player/opponent, not from empathy and good-faith participation or even just as a team with a common goal. Is your goal to "have it your way all the time", or is it to have a healthy and loving marriage with your spouse? If you approach it from the latter perspective, the question doesn't really make any sense.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - redbar0n 5y ago
    To be fair, it’s not really about coldly «saying something is important». I think the question is really better restated as: What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict? PS: > You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory made me laugh out loud :D
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict? It depends if to you “marriage” is a business transaction or an emotional relationship. Though there are likely to be problems if you a x your partner envision it differently.
      - the_omegist 5y ago
        Transactional Analysis and Eric Berne (author of The Games People Play) disagree. Emotions and (business) transactions are not mutually exclusive.
    - llbeansandrice 5y ago
      I feel like this moves the goal posts but that's fine, this is a more legitimate question. This is the actual hard part of the marriage/relationship that the commenter higher-up is talking about. Compromise is table stakes. Communicating well with your partner, making sure they are an equal participant and making sure they feel heard and valued is what's important. Again, focusing on who is going to "win" is not a healthy perspective in my opinion. Questions like "do feelings beat rationality?" Is the same thing as saying "does paper beat rock?" The purpose of the article was not that dishes and minor arguments about dishes on the counter resulted in a divorce. The point is that she felt belittled and unheard. He was winning the dish battles, but lost his marriage. >Should feelings always trump? No! But they might! Each marriage and relationship is different and they change over time (as people tend to do). For one couple this could be true, but that doesn't really mean anything. Again, this approach is thinking about marriage as a series of small arguments to win, with your spouse as the opponent. Compromise is table stakes. Whether the dishes got done or not really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not these people got divorced, the issue was a lack of communication and one partner not feeling heard. This is a less-bad framing of the earlier question, but it still suffers from the same flawed perspective. The goal is to have a healthy and happy marriage where both individuals feel heard and respected and like a team. What if you feel more strongly about something than your partner? Do you feel like your thoughts and feelings on the matter are being heard? (Note: feeling heard is not the same as "I got my way") Do you feel like an equal team member in the decision? It's okay to feel annoyed or frustrated at the result, that's part of life, you don't always get your way. But it's a huge difference between "I felt like my opinion was fully heard and considered, even if we didn't decide on my point of view." and "I felt dismissed, belittled, and unheard. $spouse/boss/friend/person didn't really listen to what I had to say and I don't feel valued."
yojo 5y ago
I entered into my marriage assuming my partner was negotiating in good faith. If she says something bugs her, it bugs her. Collectively we can either spring for Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for her, or I can pick up my pants after I shower. If your partner needs to have their way in all things, then there may be a deeper trust issue to resolve and/or they might not be ready for a committed relationship. Edit: rereading above I can see it coming off as a little flippant. At the core I believe we all have things we do and feel that are not rational. I don’t think you can reason your way out of them. You can’t rationally argue away a feeling. You can do therapy to try to change it, or you can remove the negative stimulus.
xboxnolifes 5y ago
> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? It means you're being manipulative dishonest. Which I hope we can agree is not a strong foundation for a relationship.

by gleenn 5y ago

TedDoesntTalk 5y ago

> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? This is my question, and i would like to hear from OP, married 33+ years, on his attitude about this.

landryraccoon 5y ago
> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? Is the implication here that your spouse views their marriage as a game they need to “win”, and saying “this is important” are the magic words they need to say to win? Or are they sincerely trying to compromise and saying “I’m trying to meet you halfway but this is genuinely important to me”?
llbeansandrice 5y ago
This is an extreme example/edge case and if that's truly the case you are either not participating in good faith or would likely benefit from cognitive behavioral therapy. You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory where your spouse is another player/opponent, not from empathy and good-faith participation or even just as a team with a common goal. Is your goal to "have it your way all the time", or is it to have a healthy and loving marriage with your spouse? If you approach it from the latter perspective, the question doesn't really make any sense.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- redbar0n 5y ago
  To be fair, it’s not really about coldly «saying something is important». I think the question is really better restated as: What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict? PS: > You're approaching the topic of a healthy marriage from game theory made me laugh out loud :D
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > What if one person just feels more strongly about things (most or all of the time)? Should feelings always trump? Should feelings always be allowed to trump rationality/proportionality in a marriage conflict? It depends if to you “marriage” is a business transaction or an emotional relationship. Though there are likely to be problems if you a x your partner envision it differently.
    - the_omegist 5y ago
      Transactional Analysis and Eric Berne (author of The Games People Play) disagree. Emotions and (business) transactions are not mutually exclusive.
  - llbeansandrice 5y ago
    I feel like this moves the goal posts but that's fine, this is a more legitimate question. This is the actual hard part of the marriage/relationship that the commenter higher-up is talking about. Compromise is table stakes. Communicating well with your partner, making sure they are an equal participant and making sure they feel heard and valued is what's important. Again, focusing on who is going to "win" is not a healthy perspective in my opinion. Questions like "do feelings beat rationality?" Is the same thing as saying "does paper beat rock?" The purpose of the article was not that dishes and minor arguments about dishes on the counter resulted in a divorce. The point is that she felt belittled and unheard. He was winning the dish battles, but lost his marriage. >Should feelings always trump? No! But they might! Each marriage and relationship is different and they change over time (as people tend to do). For one couple this could be true, but that doesn't really mean anything. Again, this approach is thinking about marriage as a series of small arguments to win, with your spouse as the opponent. Compromise is table stakes. Whether the dishes got done or not really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not these people got divorced, the issue was a lack of communication and one partner not feeling heard. This is a less-bad framing of the earlier question, but it still suffers from the same flawed perspective. The goal is to have a healthy and happy marriage where both individuals feel heard and respected and like a team. What if you feel more strongly about something than your partner? Do you feel like your thoughts and feelings on the matter are being heard? (Note: feeling heard is not the same as "I got my way") Do you feel like an equal team member in the decision? It's okay to feel annoyed or frustrated at the result, that's part of life, you don't always get your way. But it's a huge difference between "I felt like my opinion was fully heard and considered, even if we didn't decide on my point of view." and "I felt dismissed, belittled, and unheard. $spouse/boss/friend/person didn't really listen to what I had to say and I don't feel valued."

yojo 5y ago

I entered into my marriage assuming my partner was negotiating in good faith. If she says something bugs her, it bugs her. Collectively we can either spring for Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for her, or I can pick up my pants after I shower. If your partner needs to have their way in all things, then there may be a deeper trust issue to resolve and/or they might not be ready for a committed relationship. Edit: rereading above I can see it coming off as a little flippant. At the core I believe we all have things we do and feel that are not rational. I don’t think you can reason your way out of them. You can’t rationally argue away a feeling. You can do therapy to try to change it, or you can remove the negative stimulus.

xboxnolifes 5y ago

> If I just sit around and say everything is "important", does that mean I get to have it my way all the time? It means you're being manipulative dishonest. Which I hope we can agree is not a strong foundation for a relationship.