4 ms·

Sanctions are war.

by polski-g 5y ago

Sanctions are war.

rbanffy 5y ago
It’s war, without bullets.
- AsusToss 5y ago
  Sometimes bullets are amongst the items sanctioned, so not necessarily
hxkabsnxksl 5y ago
hxkabsnxksl 5y ago
Is this the vibe you are going with? https://original.antiwar.com/daniel_larison/2021/05/03/sanctions-are-war/ https://original.antiwar.com/daniel_larison/2021/05/03/sanct... Edit: more sauce: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-radio-davos/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-ra... Is also a Putin line, so take as you will.
hxkabsnxksl 5y ago
More sauce: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-radio-davos/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-ra...
ambrozk 5y ago
This is a dumb statement every time it's asserted. Sanctions are not an act of war in any sense. Not in theory nor in a pragmatic sense. The distinction between war and other modes of interstate hostility is an important one which we should not abandon. "Sanctions are war" is the same sort of statement as "speech is violence": it's sophistic, and it collapses nuance instead of encouraging it.
- FrenchDevRemote 5y ago
  "Go beat/kill this guy" is violence, yet it's just words. Putin haven't killed people with his bare hands(at least for a few years...)But who wouldn't call him violent? If your sanctions cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence. I'm not against sanctions depending on the circumstances, but you're just wrong
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    If people don't follow Putin's orders, they get imprisoned or executed. His orders are not "just words".
    - ummonk 5y ago
      Well only because people follow his orders to imprison those who aren’t following his orders.
    - mikem170 5y ago
      The same as the guy in the article was imprisoned by the United States? EDIT: Putin puts people in jail for not following marching orders. The U.S. puts people in jail for not following sanctions. It doesn't seem logical to draw a distinction on what is or is not warlike (bullets vs sanctions) based on who jails people, since they both jail people who disobey orders. I assume other factors would be more relevant?
  - threeseed 5y ago
    > cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence Which would imply famine, poverty, the flu are forms of violence. This distortion of the English language is so tortured it's just nonsensical at this point.
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      When one nation causes another to suffer famine, poverty, and a devastating epidemic, that should pretty much qualify as a form of war.
arcticbull 5y ago
You can't force someone to trade with you - while being able to trade within your state is a right, international trade is a privilege. This privilege is negotiated at the state level. If you decide to thumb your nose at your trading partners they can stop trading with you, because they don't owe you trade. If you built an economy entirely dependent on foreign trade for the survival of your own citizens it's best not to bite the hand that feeds, eh? But making sure your citizens survive is your responsibility and yours alone - not that of your trading partners.

Sanctions are war.

rbanffy 5y ago

It’s war, without bullets.

AsusToss 5y ago
Sometimes bullets are amongst the items sanctioned, so not necessarily

hxkabsnxksl 5y ago

Is this the vibe you are going with? https://original.antiwar.com/daniel_larison/2021/05/03/sanctions-are-war/ https://original.antiwar.com/daniel_larison/2021/05/03/sanct... Edit: more sauce: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-radio-davos/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-ra... Is also a Putin line, so take as you will.

hxkabsnxksl 5y ago

More sauce: https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-radio-davos/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/04/what-are-sanctions-ra...

ambrozk 5y ago

This is a dumb statement every time it's asserted. Sanctions are not an act of war in any sense. Not in theory nor in a pragmatic sense. The distinction between war and other modes of interstate hostility is an important one which we should not abandon. "Sanctions are war" is the same sort of statement as "speech is violence": it's sophistic, and it collapses nuance instead of encouraging it.

FrenchDevRemote 5y ago
"Go beat/kill this guy" is violence, yet it's just words. Putin haven't killed people with his bare hands(at least for a few years...)But who wouldn't call him violent? If your sanctions cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence. I'm not against sanctions depending on the circumstances, but you're just wrong
- WalterBright 5y ago
  If people don't follow Putin's orders, they get imprisoned or executed. His orders are not "just words".
  - ummonk 5y ago
    Well only because people follow his orders to imprison those who aren’t following his orders.
  - mikem170 5y ago
    The same as the guy in the article was imprisoned by the United States? EDIT: Putin puts people in jail for not following marching orders. The U.S. puts people in jail for not following sanctions. It doesn't seem logical to draw a distinction on what is or is not warlike (bullets vs sanctions) based on who jails people, since they both jail people who disobey orders. I assume other factors would be more relevant?
- threeseed 5y ago
  > cause people to die, of hunger, sickness or anything else, it's violence Which would imply famine, poverty, the flu are forms of violence. This distortion of the English language is so tortured it's just nonsensical at this point.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    When one nation causes another to suffer famine, poverty, and a devastating epidemic, that should pretty much qualify as a form of war.

arcticbull 5y ago

You can't force someone to trade with you - while being able to trade within your state is a right, international trade is a privilege. This privilege is negotiated at the state level. If you decide to thumb your nose at your trading partners they can stop trading with you, because they don't owe you trade. If you built an economy entirely dependent on foreign trade for the survival of your own citizens it's best not to bite the hand that feeds, eh? But making sure your citizens survive is your responsibility and yours alone - not that of your trading partners.