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I respect Boris Johnson. His appearance in Kiev was fantastic; war is too far from end and this was really risky. And behavior of his opponents, remembers me

by simne 5y ago

I respect Boris Johnson. His appearance in Kiev was fantastic; war is too far from end and this was really risky. And behavior of his opponents, remembers me favorite Russian "talking about filament in opponent's eye, when you have log there". I think, need something more serious, for really large penalty, which demands those people. Behavior of police is absolutely right, they have done their work. If opponents think this is too much evil, they should appeal.

pasabagi 5y ago
In the UK, his actions regarding Ukraine (which I also found surprisingly brave) are generally viewed as a cynical way of using your suffering to boost his poll numbers. If I was Ukrainian, I probably wouldn't care that much (since it comes with real advantages - weapons etc), but from a UK perspective, it does turn the stomach a bit to see the PM dodge question after question about his criminal behavior by awkwardly changing the subject to Ukraine. This is largely informed by how he has generally acted throughout his career. He's largely understood, even by his allies, as somebody without any real integrity.
- simne 5y ago
  Yes, you are right, that we, Ukrainians, sure on some extent using advantages of what happen. But don't say this to other Ukrainians, because we pay very high payment for these things happening now. I already accepted Jefferson's: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants", while others are not yet. But I accent, for you may be blurred difference of crime from offense, but for developing countries these differences are huge important. Because you live in country with developed justice system, but we lived in totalitarian country, where justice system constantly used for persecution of people with different from official see. So we looking very carefully, where officials (police) could consider light offense (with light penalty). And we sure avoid, what could been considered crime with serious punishment.
  - pasabagi 5y ago
    Yeah, can totally see how it might come across as an incidence of 'lawfare'. However, the UK system doesn't work like that. It's very very strongly biased to protect people like Boris Johnson from any kind of prosecution. That is perhaps why Boris Johnson is the first sitting prime minister to be fined for a criminal offense. It's also not something that just came out of the blue. Details about the parties in his office have been being leaked to the press for months now. First, Boris denied any rules had been broken. Then, when videos surfaced, he fired people, gave speeches about how shocked and disappointed he was, and said he had no knowledge. Then, when an inquiry into it started, he said he couldn't comment on further leaks, because he wanted to wait for the results. Then, when a police investigation started, he said he couldn't comment because he didn't want to 'prejudice the investigation'. Then when he actually gets convicted, he makes out that it's not a big deal anyway. People feel like they are being laughed at: even if the crime itself is not totally awful (although any public official would normally lose their job over it), the principle of being able to trust elected officials to have basic, table-stakes truthfulness, integrity, and honour is under threat. Since the UK has no constitution, the democratic system is heavily reliant on politicians behaving with a reasonable degree of honesty and integrity. It's not a system with hard guarantees to protect citizens from bad actors. It's heavily reliant on politicians following conventions that protect the rights and liberties of UK citizens. A PM that follows neither convention, nor civil law, nor criminal law, is a very dangerous precedent in that system.
    - simne 5y ago
      You missing important thing. You may wonder, why Ukrainians do, what they do? I will tell you scary story from real Ukrainian life. This happen in ~ 2011. Riot in one small village, named Vradievka (Nikolaev district in South Ukraine, really far from capital). So one day, villagers blocked police building, and demand to quit from job head of police and make investigation. - This head participated in crime (cover gangs), rape women, tortured villagers. Three days before riot, police captured one women, rape her, than torture her brother. That is REAL crime system, not tea drinking, about which you talking. And that's why after that in Ukraine happen Revolution in 2014, and why Ukrainians so much resist for Russian invasion - in Russia all those things are typical life outside capital. Only specific, that Russians are Nazi, they mostly do violence against other nations.

by simne 5y ago

pasabagi 5y ago

In the UK, his actions regarding Ukraine (which I also found surprisingly brave) are generally viewed as a cynical way of using your suffering to boost his poll numbers. If I was Ukrainian, I probably wouldn't care that much (since it comes with real advantages - weapons etc), but from a UK perspective, it does turn the stomach a bit to see the PM dodge question after question about his criminal behavior by awkwardly changing the subject to Ukraine. This is largely informed by how he has generally acted throughout his career. He's largely understood, even by his allies, as somebody without any real integrity.

simne 5y ago
Yes, you are right, that we, Ukrainians, sure on some extent using advantages of what happen. But don't say this to other Ukrainians, because we pay very high payment for these things happening now. I already accepted Jefferson's: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants", while others are not yet. But I accent, for you may be blurred difference of crime from offense, but for developing countries these differences are huge important. Because you live in country with developed justice system, but we lived in totalitarian country, where justice system constantly used for persecution of people with different from official see. So we looking very carefully, where officials (police) could consider light offense (with light penalty). And we sure avoid, what could been considered crime with serious punishment.
- pasabagi 5y ago
  Yeah, can totally see how it might come across as an incidence of 'lawfare'. However, the UK system doesn't work like that. It's very very strongly biased to protect people like Boris Johnson from any kind of prosecution. That is perhaps why Boris Johnson is the first sitting prime minister to be fined for a criminal offense. It's also not something that just came out of the blue. Details about the parties in his office have been being leaked to the press for months now. First, Boris denied any rules had been broken. Then, when videos surfaced, he fired people, gave speeches about how shocked and disappointed he was, and said he had no knowledge. Then, when an inquiry into it started, he said he couldn't comment on further leaks, because he wanted to wait for the results. Then, when a police investigation started, he said he couldn't comment because he didn't want to 'prejudice the investigation'. Then when he actually gets convicted, he makes out that it's not a big deal anyway. People feel like they are being laughed at: even if the crime itself is not totally awful (although any public official would normally lose their job over it), the principle of being able to trust elected officials to have basic, table-stakes truthfulness, integrity, and honour is under threat. Since the UK has no constitution, the democratic system is heavily reliant on politicians behaving with a reasonable degree of honesty and integrity. It's not a system with hard guarantees to protect citizens from bad actors. It's heavily reliant on politicians following conventions that protect the rights and liberties of UK citizens. A PM that follows neither convention, nor civil law, nor criminal law, is a very dangerous precedent in that system.
  - simne 5y ago
    You missing important thing. You may wonder, why Ukrainians do, what they do? I will tell you scary story from real Ukrainian life. This happen in ~ 2011. Riot in one small village, named Vradievka (Nikolaev district in South Ukraine, really far from capital). So one day, villagers blocked police building, and demand to quit from job head of police and make investigation. - This head participated in crime (cover gangs), rape women, tortured villagers. Three days before riot, police captured one women, rape her, than torture her brother. That is REAL crime system, not tea drinking, about which you talking. And that's why after that in Ukraine happen Revolution in 2014, and why Ukrainians so much resist for Russian invasion - in Russia all those things are typical life outside capital. Only specific, that Russians are Nazi, they mostly do violence against other nations.