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This is not how enterprise software works. Audited data privacy is a core selling point of enterprise communication systems like Slack and Zoom, which are able

This is not how enterprise software works. Audited data privacy is a core selling point of enterprise communication systems like Slack and Zoom, which are able to charge a lot of money for enterprise licenses and have very viable business models. You're right that this may not work in the consumer space, but that battle is already lost -- there are myriad free communication options available to consumers such as messenger calls, facetime, etc.

joshuaissac 5y ago
> Audited data privacy is a core selling point of enterprise communication systems like Slack and Zoom Is Zoom audited? Zoom had been lying for about having end-to-end encryption, for example, until they were caught by the US Federal Trade Commission. Surely, something like that would have been discovered earlier in an audit, if they were audited and the audits were worth something. They were also sending data to third parties like Facebook and Google through their SDKs. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/zoom-lied-to-users-about-end-to-end-encryption-for-years-ftc-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/zoom-lied-to-use... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...
- brodock 5y ago
  They also kept microfone on after closing calls, and reverted after getting caught https://thinksproutinfotech.com/news/zoom-update-fixes-macos-bug-that-keeps-microphone-on-after-meetings/ https://thinksproutinfotech.com/news/zoom-update-fixes-macos...
  - LegitShady 5y ago
    this was definitely a thing in windows too although no idea if changed now - I remember zoom running in the tray would cause the microphone to activate even outside of calls. I was weirded out by it enough to stop running zoom on startup and eventually replace zoom with other applications that didn't exhibit that behaviour.
  - autoexec 5y ago
    Seriously, who in their right mind is using Zoom at this point? They've been "accidentally" collecting people's data, disclosing people's data to others, and have been caught lying so many times there's nearly zero chance that it's just total incompetence and even if it were, why use something made by people who are that bad at their job? There are so many alternatives, how is it Zoom has any business at all?
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      > how is it Zoom has any business at all? Zoom was the first videoconferencing software I experienced where the first 15 minutes of the meeting was not spent with "can you see me," "can you hear me," some people falling back to dialing in to a speakerphone, and one or more out-of-band calls to various participants to troubleshoot problems. Zoom was click a link. And it worked. Nobody cared much about anything else beyond that.
      - mitchdoogle 5y ago
        Perhaps I am misremembering but I remember using Skype 9-10 years ago without any issues. Zoom does not seem to be that much of an improvement in terms of ease of use
        rootusrootus 5y ago
        But is Skype that way now? Zoom was in good position when the pandemic made everyone pick a video conferencing app. Some of the competition (Webex comes to mind) got slapped so hard they basically copied the Zoom interface in order to stay somewhat competitive.
    - lolinder 5y ago
      This morning my boss tried to host a meeting on his favorite Zoom substitute. The first 20 minutes were spent trying to fix a ten second delay in his audio. Finally we just switched to a Zoom call, and it worked flawlessly. There are only two videoconferencing platforms I've never had any problems with: Zoom and Google Meet. I don't trust either company, but sometimes you just have to get your work done.
- SkyPuncher 5y ago
  > Is Zoom audited? Yes. https://explore.zoom.us/en/trust/legal-compliance/ https://explore.zoom.us/en/trust/legal-compliance/
  - kwhitefoot 5y ago
    Where does it say that the code was audited? And where does it say who did it?
johannes1234321 5y ago
Considering the trouble I have with WebEx again and again UX indeed comes late. I often call it "golf-course-ware" the sales person goes golfing with the executive, they discuss features and prices and discounts ober the match and the executive typically doesn't have to use the software but only their employees or the assistant. Interestingly Zoom for me was a game changer in usability and it spread during pandemic, when executives where at home partially without their physical conference room with video conf setup and without assistant.
andylynch 5y ago
Zoom’s better than it used to be, still some big orgs and their IT security treat it (with some justification and I think informed paranoia) as something to be tolerated due to client demand and avoided for anything sensitive.
p1necone 5y ago
I don't know about this, Zoom has been taking over the enterprise world and they have /awful/ security.

joshuaissac 5y ago

> Audited data privacy is a core selling point of enterprise communication systems like Slack and Zoom Is Zoom audited? Zoom had been lying for about having end-to-end encryption, for example, until they were caught by the US Federal Trade Commission. Surely, something like that would have been discovered earlier in an audit, if they were audited and the audits were worth something. They were also sending data to third parties like Facebook and Google through their SDKs. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/zoom-lied-to-users-about-end-to-end-encryption-for-years-ftc-says/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/11/zoom-lied-to-use... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-for-lying-about-encryption-and-sending-data-to-facebook-and-google/ https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/08/zoom-to-pay-85m-...

brodock 5y ago
They also kept microfone on after closing calls, and reverted after getting caught https://thinksproutinfotech.com/news/zoom-update-fixes-macos-bug-that-keeps-microphone-on-after-meetings/ https://thinksproutinfotech.com/news/zoom-update-fixes-macos...
- LegitShady 5y ago
  this was definitely a thing in windows too although no idea if changed now - I remember zoom running in the tray would cause the microphone to activate even outside of calls. I was weirded out by it enough to stop running zoom on startup and eventually replace zoom with other applications that didn't exhibit that behaviour.
- autoexec 5y ago
  Seriously, who in their right mind is using Zoom at this point? They've been "accidentally" collecting people's data, disclosing people's data to others, and have been caught lying so many times there's nearly zero chance that it's just total incompetence and even if it were, why use something made by people who are that bad at their job? There are so many alternatives, how is it Zoom has any business at all?
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    > how is it Zoom has any business at all? Zoom was the first videoconferencing software I experienced where the first 15 minutes of the meeting was not spent with "can you see me," "can you hear me," some people falling back to dialing in to a speakerphone, and one or more out-of-band calls to various participants to troubleshoot problems. Zoom was click a link. And it worked. Nobody cared much about anything else beyond that.
    - mitchdoogle 5y ago
      Perhaps I am misremembering but I remember using Skype 9-10 years ago without any issues. Zoom does not seem to be that much of an improvement in terms of ease of use
      - rootusrootus 5y ago
        But is Skype that way now? Zoom was in good position when the pandemic made everyone pick a video conferencing app. Some of the competition (Webex comes to mind) got slapped so hard they basically copied the Zoom interface in order to stay somewhat competitive.
  - lolinder 5y ago
    This morning my boss tried to host a meeting on his favorite Zoom substitute. The first 20 minutes were spent trying to fix a ten second delay in his audio. Finally we just switched to a Zoom call, and it worked flawlessly. There are only two videoconferencing platforms I've never had any problems with: Zoom and Google Meet. I don't trust either company, but sometimes you just have to get your work done.
SkyPuncher 5y ago
> Is Zoom audited? Yes. https://explore.zoom.us/en/trust/legal-compliance/ https://explore.zoom.us/en/trust/legal-compliance/
- kwhitefoot 5y ago
  Where does it say that the code was audited? And where does it say who did it?

johannes1234321 5y ago

Considering the trouble I have with WebEx again and again UX indeed comes late. I often call it "golf-course-ware" the sales person goes golfing with the executive, they discuss features and prices and discounts ober the match and the executive typically doesn't have to use the software but only their employees or the assistant. Interestingly Zoom for me was a game changer in usability and it spread during pandemic, when executives where at home partially without their physical conference room with video conf setup and without assistant.

andylynch 5y ago

Zoom’s better than it used to be, still some big orgs and their IT security treat it (with some justification and I think informed paranoia) as something to be tolerated due to client demand and avoided for anything sensitive.

p1necone 5y ago

I don't know about this, Zoom has been taking over the enterprise world and they have /awful/ security.