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End-to-End encryption for group video and audio is now supported. I'm not sure it works or who is supporting besides Signal, but it is apparently not not requir

End-to-End encryption for group video and audio is now supported. I'm not sure it works or who is supporting besides Signal, but it is apparently not not required that the conference provider decrypt the streams to mix them. https://mashable.com/article/signal-end-to-end-encrypted-group-video-calls https://mashable.com/article/signal-end-to-end-encrypted-gro...

KennyBlanken 5y ago
Element/Matrix also support e2ee. Jitsi has supposed e2ee videoconferencing (on Chrome - they used some chrome-specific API for processing) for (I believe) at least a year or two.
- feanaro 5y ago
  The API is called Insertable Streams. It's not actually supposed to be Chrome-specific, others are just lagging in implementing it. Element has native E2EE for 1-to-1 calls, but uses Jitsi for group calls. Native E2EE group calls actually also exist, called Element Call (https://element.io/blog/introducing-native-matrix-voip-with-element-call/ https://element.io/blog/introducing-native-matrix-voip-with-...) but they're yet to be integrated into Element and specced into Matrix, I believe.
  - BlueTemplar 5y ago
    Jitsi's own solution I assume (also on Jitsi Meet), and not the usual XMPP/Jabber that (non-Meet) Jitsi uses ?
hunter2_ 5y ago
> it is apparently not not required that the conference provider decrypt the streams to mix them I don't believe this could be true, and the linked article doesn't have the word "mix" anywhere. I imagine that there is no mixing happening until after decryption on the client device. Of course this means that every audio source goes to each recipient discretely, which means more bandwidth, but audio (especially near-silent moments therein) is lightweight enough for reasonably sized groups. Obviously this same n^2 scaling issue happens with the video anyway which is never mixed.
- pthatcherg 5y ago
  That's correct. You can't mix without decrypting. Signal does not mix at the server because it can't. More info is available at my blog post about it: https://signal.org/blog/how-to-build-encrypted-group-calls/ https://signal.org/blog/how-to-build-encrypted-group-calls/
  - hunter2_ 5y ago
    Good stuff, thanks!

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Element/Matrix also support e2ee. Jitsi has supposed e2ee videoconferencing (on Chrome - they used some chrome-specific API for processing) for (I believe) at least a year or two.

feanaro 5y ago
The API is called Insertable Streams. It's not actually supposed to be Chrome-specific, others are just lagging in implementing it. Element has native E2EE for 1-to-1 calls, but uses Jitsi for group calls. Native E2EE group calls actually also exist, called Element Call (https://element.io/blog/introducing-native-matrix-voip-with-element-call/ https://element.io/blog/introducing-native-matrix-voip-with-...) but they're yet to be integrated into Element and specced into Matrix, I believe.
- BlueTemplar 5y ago
  Jitsi's own solution I assume (also on Jitsi Meet), and not the usual XMPP/Jabber that (non-Meet) Jitsi uses ?

hunter2_ 5y ago

> it is apparently not not required that the conference provider decrypt the streams to mix them I don't believe this could be true, and the linked article doesn't have the word "mix" anywhere. I imagine that there is no mixing happening until after decryption on the client device. Of course this means that every audio source goes to each recipient discretely, which means more bandwidth, but audio (especially near-silent moments therein) is lightweight enough for reasonably sized groups. Obviously this same n^2 scaling issue happens with the video anyway which is never mixed.

pthatcherg 5y ago
That's correct. You can't mix without decrypting. Signal does not mix at the server because it can't. More info is available at my blog post about it: https://signal.org/blog/how-to-build-encrypted-group-calls/ https://signal.org/blog/how-to-build-encrypted-group-calls/
- hunter2_ 5y ago
  Good stuff, thanks!