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Refusing to trade with a country is not a violation of their national autonomy.

yazantapuz 4y ago
This. A lot of people seems to think that the USA bans everyone in the world to trade with cuba, even if they could buy an Havann Club in the store.
- wspess 4y ago
  While USA does not ban everyone from doing trade with Cuba, USA does ban everyone who trades with Cuba from doing trade with the US. You can clearly see how this creates insentives for not trading with Cuba and instead trading with the far larger market next to it.
  - yazantapuz 4y ago
    A lot of countries do international trade with Cuba. USA is not banning everyone who trades with Cuba. I can go to any licor store in my country and buy a bottle of Cuban ron, for example.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      The US penalizes any country giving foreign aid to Cuba, and prevents its membership in International Financial Institutions like the IMF. Any company in the world doing business in Cuba is also sanctioned by the US and it's employees are barred from entering the US. You may be able to buy a bottle of Cuban rum at your liquor store, but that store can not do business in the US, use US banks, and the senior employees may be barred from traveling to the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act#Summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act#Summa...
  - kyleplum 4y ago
    If Cuba refused to trade with anyone who traded with the US, would you say that Cuba is violating the national autonomy of the US?
    - boomboomsubban 4y ago
      Yes, however the severity of the violation is dependent on the influence of the violator. Cuba's violation would be wrong but mostly meaningless compared to the US's.
      - kyleplum 4y ago
        Would it not be a violation of Cuba's National Autonomy to force them to trade with partner's that they did not wish to trade with?
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Yes, but I don't see how that's relevant. Not banning trade doesn't force the countries to trade, it just gives them the choice.
        kyleplum 4y ago
        > Not banning trade doesn't force the countries to trade, it just gives them the choice. And the choice made by the US is to not trade with Cuba or anyone who trades with Cuba - it's their right to make this choice.
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        It's not. They're free to choose who they trade with, using who that country trades with as a decider violates their autonomy. You're just framing the violation as a choice and saying it is their right to make that choice. Sure, they also have the right to make the choice to invade Canada, but actually invading is obviously violating their autonomy.
  - sterlind 4y ago
    shouldn't countries be allowed to decide whom to trade with? if so, doesn't that extend to countries being allowed to make their own rules of trade, including not trading with those who trade with unfriendly nations?
    - zajio1am 4y ago
      > shouldn't countries be allowed to decide whom to trade with? One have to distinguish country and its citizens. Sanctions is not just 'country decides whom to trade with' but 'country restrict freedom of its citizens to trade' and that is rather significant infringement of freedom and as such it has to be justified by its necessity.

This. A lot of people seems to think that the USA bans everyone in the world to trade with cuba, even if they could buy an Havann Club in the store.

wspess 4y ago
While USA does not ban everyone from doing trade with Cuba, USA does ban everyone who trades with Cuba from doing trade with the US. You can clearly see how this creates insentives for not trading with Cuba and instead trading with the far larger market next to it.
- yazantapuz 4y ago
  A lot of countries do international trade with Cuba. USA is not banning everyone who trades with Cuba. I can go to any licor store in my country and buy a bottle of Cuban ron, for example.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    The US penalizes any country giving foreign aid to Cuba, and prevents its membership in International Financial Institutions like the IMF. Any company in the world doing business in Cuba is also sanctioned by the US and it's employees are barred from entering the US. You may be able to buy a bottle of Cuban rum at your liquor store, but that store can not do business in the US, use US banks, and the senior employees may be barred from traveling to the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act#Summary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helms%E2%80%93Burton_Act#Summa...
- kyleplum 4y ago
  If Cuba refused to trade with anyone who traded with the US, would you say that Cuba is violating the national autonomy of the US?
  - boomboomsubban 4y ago
    Yes, however the severity of the violation is dependent on the influence of the violator. Cuba's violation would be wrong but mostly meaningless compared to the US's.
    - kyleplum 4y ago
      Would it not be a violation of Cuba's National Autonomy to force them to trade with partner's that they did not wish to trade with?
      - boomboomsubban 4y ago
        Yes, but I don't see how that's relevant. Not banning trade doesn't force the countries to trade, it just gives them the choice.
        kyleplum 4y ago
        > Not banning trade doesn't force the countries to trade, it just gives them the choice. And the choice made by the US is to not trade with Cuba or anyone who trades with Cuba - it's their right to make this choice.
        boomboomsubban 4y ago
        It's not. They're free to choose who they trade with, using who that country trades with as a decider violates their autonomy. You're just framing the violation as a choice and saying it is their right to make that choice. Sure, they also have the right to make the choice to invade Canada, but actually invading is obviously violating their autonomy.
- sterlind 4y ago
  shouldn't countries be allowed to decide whom to trade with? if so, doesn't that extend to countries being allowed to make their own rules of trade, including not trading with those who trade with unfriendly nations?
  - zajio1am 4y ago
    > shouldn't countries be allowed to decide whom to trade with? One have to distinguish country and its citizens. Sanctions is not just 'country decides whom to trade with' but 'country restrict freedom of its citizens to trade' and that is rather significant infringement of freedom and as such it has to be justified by its necessity.