4 ms·

I read the article and felt sad. There's a lot of emotionally charged language (repeatedly: "I was a shitty husband"), but stripping away that language, his mai

I read the article and felt sad. There's a lot of emotionally charged language (repeatedly: "I was a shitty husband"), but stripping away that language, his main point is consistent with his Atlantic article. Namely, that while he tried to be a good husband for the 'big issues' (e.g. never cheating), he was neglectful for the little things, and didn't give her enough attention or care. My interpretation is that the divorce was somewhat unexpected as there were no major issues besides the 'little things,' but he largely feels that the divorce was out of his locus of control. He's then compensating to assert that it really was in his control, and also severely criticizing himself with emotionally charged language for letting the divorce happen. Given the information at the time, I don't think the divorce was avoidable. If anything, the ex-spouse at least has an iota responsibility to identify the feelings of neglect, rather than pointing out the neglectful habits without reflecting on why she was so bothered them. It would be healthiest for him to let it go, and find happiness elsewhere in life (e.g. with another partner and pursuit) and move on as much as possible (though it's hard as he has a kid). It's hard to see him really make the divorce part of his identity, the point where he publishes a book about it, writes in The Atlantic, and even offers divorce counseling services at the end.

llbeansandrice 4y ago
>the ex-spouse at least has an iota responsibility to identify the feelings of neglect, rather than pointing out the neglectful habits without reflecting on why she was so bothered them. While this isn't really wrong I think it just derails what the main point of the article is. >'big issues' (e.g. never cheating) This baseline of "at least I don't cheat" or "at least I can provide" (implicitly saying things like "at least I'm not a drunk/drug-addict/bum") is so laughably low. His wife left because she wasn't happy and didn't feel agency. It's _possible_ she could ahve communicated things in a way that finally got through to him, but the vast vast majority of the emotional introspection and reflection is absolutely on his side. Another comment said it: compromise and such are table stakes. They're nothing. The real goal is to be in a happy and healthy marriage. To support, listen to, and empathize with your partner, and to get the same back. From that perspective I don't see how you can come away with any other conclusion than he was, genuinely a shitty husband in many ways. No body is perfect, and the real hard work in a relationship is communication. But if you're approaching it from a perspective of game theory and compromise and winning battles about chores, you're being a shitty spouse.
- openknot 4y ago
  I agree that the baseline isn't enough. My intention was to summarize his initial perspective (that it was enough), then question whether his self-criticism (he's a "shitty husband" because he didn't see it soon enough) draws the right conclusions. My view is that I don't think it's healthy for him to take all the blame. He had a responsibility to care more, but his spouse also had the opportunity to communicate about her feelings of neglect. His harsh self-criticism is unhealthy, and not something to emulate (though I agree with his point about caring about low-level requests from a partner). If a person takes all the blame for any negative situation in life, it can be empowering to an extent, but it can also stop a person from moving on from the past (for reference, his divorce was in 2013, but he's still analyzing it as of 2022).
  - agota 4y ago
    >but his spouse also had the opportunity to communicate about her feelings of neglect According to the article: "Hundreds, maybe thousands, of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong. That something hurt. But that doesn’t make sense, I thought. I’m not trying to hurt her; therefore, she shouldn’t feel hurt" At what point it's okay to stop "trying to communicate" and just leave?

llbeansandrice 4y ago

>the ex-spouse at least has an iota responsibility to identify the feelings of neglect, rather than pointing out the neglectful habits without reflecting on why she was so bothered them. While this isn't really wrong I think it just derails what the main point of the article is. >'big issues' (e.g. never cheating) This baseline of "at least I don't cheat" or "at least I can provide" (implicitly saying things like "at least I'm not a drunk/drug-addict/bum") is so laughably low. His wife left because she wasn't happy and didn't feel agency. It's _possible_ she could ahve communicated things in a way that finally got through to him, but the vast vast majority of the emotional introspection and reflection is absolutely on his side. Another comment said it: compromise and such are table stakes. They're nothing. The real goal is to be in a happy and healthy marriage. To support, listen to, and empathize with your partner, and to get the same back. From that perspective I don't see how you can come away with any other conclusion than he was, genuinely a shitty husband in many ways. No body is perfect, and the real hard work in a relationship is communication. But if you're approaching it from a perspective of game theory and compromise and winning battles about chores, you're being a shitty spouse.

openknot 4y ago
I agree that the baseline isn't enough. My intention was to summarize his initial perspective (that it was enough), then question whether his self-criticism (he's a "shitty husband" because he didn't see it soon enough) draws the right conclusions. My view is that I don't think it's healthy for him to take all the blame. He had a responsibility to care more, but his spouse also had the opportunity to communicate about her feelings of neglect. His harsh self-criticism is unhealthy, and not something to emulate (though I agree with his point about caring about low-level requests from a partner). If a person takes all the blame for any negative situation in life, it can be empowering to an extent, but it can also stop a person from moving on from the past (for reference, his divorce was in 2013, but he's still analyzing it as of 2022).
- agota 4y ago
  >but his spouse also had the opportunity to communicate about her feelings of neglect According to the article: "Hundreds, maybe thousands, of times, my wife tried to communicate that something was wrong. That something hurt. But that doesn’t make sense, I thought. I’m not trying to hurt her; therefore, she shouldn’t feel hurt" At what point it's okay to stop "trying to communicate" and just leave?